[XJ99]

Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger

What if I'm a gun carrying college student and something really pisses me off. Say my girlfriend is being gangbanged by the lacrosse team. Could this "sortof momentary" anger, coupled with the fact I now have a gun, lead me to shoot some people?

I'm actually pro carrying guns though..

If you catch said lacrosse team in the act, yes you can..

The reasonable use of lethal force will be allowed if an intruder is:

Committing certain violent crimes, such as murder or sexual assault, or is attempting to commit such crimes

Law may difer from state to state..

[Jeepdawgs]

Originally Posted by myrockfight

Stereotype much? That statement shows you are very ignorant of the situation at hand and invalidates your opinion to many people.
Apparantly you feel that "people in college" are incapable or are too irresponsible to obtain permits to carry concealed.
Let me educate you on "people in college."
At my university, which is one of the largest in the Southeast of the US, approximately 60% of the students are over the age of 25. Are you assuming that all of those people are incapable of being responsible enough to carry a firearm? You don't think even one out of a hundred people are capable of that?
Do you have any idea how many soldiers are coming back and enrolling in school, courtesy of the GI Bill? Many of them have been soldiers since they were out of high school at 18. More than a few have seen combat. Are they incapable of handling a firearm responsibly? Because they have been doing it for quite some time.
Your problem is that you "feel" topics of discussion out, rather than think about them rationally. Understand that people often form themselves into what you expect them to be. If you expect your peers, children, etc. to act reasonably and with responsibility, the probability of them doing so will increase dramatically.
As a "recruiter" for the organization which you are involved, you should speak more deliberately and with more responsibility. You are putting yourself in a position of leadership.
The above comments go for everyone else here too. I have seen many people on many forums bashing college students because of the stereotype commenting on how irresponsible they are, etc. You are prejudging people.
If you are a student yourself and are going to try to present the argument that you have seen students act this way, they act like idiots, etc., - it isn't valid. The bottom line is that most students don't act in a fashion concurrent to what you have seen in Animal House. If you think your social group is full of idiots, tell them that and then find a more responsible group of people to hang out with. I've hung out with both types of crowds in college and there are far more people who are not irresponsible, drunken idiots.
Yes. I have seen people who are college students act morons. I have also seen doctors, lawyers, and police officers act the same way. But I am not going to say that they are all that way, all the time.. Nor am I going to say that they are all great and wonderful people.
It is what it is. No more. No less. Don't mislead people by repeating ignorant statements and views. Stop to think about what you are saying.

You need to look at the replies posted before and after that comment. We were discussing training to carry a CCW and the importance of not going for a gun first, to always find a non-lethal way out of a situation. Like I said before many colleges do not allow you with a gun on campus so even if they can carry it goes out the window. If a ex-soldier goes to college then, then yes it would be ok if he carried, he has had the training.

Maybe I did not make my position clear as far as training. I am not just talking training with a firearm, but situational training on how to use your head, clear your mind, and focus on a remedy to the situation at hand. The last thing anybody should ever do is go for their weapon, if you injure or kill somebody it is something that you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

[2005Unlimited]

Yes there are alot of people that come back for the service and go to college. Many of them have used a weapon many time's in there time in the service. You want service members or any one else that can get this permit to carry guns on school grounds, to malls, or anywhere else they go to make things that just happen not happen as often, hopefully never. I don't see how that is going to stop stupid people from doing something they are determined they are going to do.

Take the military. People that have been thur training for many years. Weapons training, leadership training, alot of diffrent trainins to make them the most prepared person for war. And they are not allowed to carry a gun on base unless they are under arms. Hell if you have a gun on base it has to be in an armory.

So sure, if the United States Government can spend 1000's of dollars to train there service members to properly use weapons, and know when and how to use deadly force; and still not let service members to carry on base. Must be a trust issue. What makes you think your college person being 21 to 28 or what ever it is that may have been thru some training if any to get this permit should be able to carry a loaded gun anywhere he goes, and let him determine when he should shoot, or kill someone. I guess you trust alot of people. I have a hard time understanding that. Mabey if you ever lost someone in a cross fire or seen it, it does happen, you may think a little different, about everyone carring a gun that is allowed too.


If not well I hope I never get into an argument with someone like you. You may just end up shooting me over a parking space.

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Yes there are alot of people that come back for the service and go to college. Many of them have used a weapon many time's in there time in the service. You want service members or any one else that can get this permit to carry guns on school grounds, to malls, or anywhere else they go to make things that just happen not happen as often, hopefully never. I don't see how that is going to stop stupid people from doing something they are determined they are going to do.

Take the military. People that have been thur training for many years. Weapons training, leadership training, alot of diffrent trainins to make them the most prepared person for war. And they are not allowed to carry a gun on base unless they are under arms. Hell if you have a gun on base it has to be in an armory.

So sure, if the United States Government can spend 1000's of dollars to train there service members to properly use weapons, and know when and how to use deadly force; and still not let service members to carry on base. Must be a trust issue. What makes you think your college person being 21 to 28 or what ever it is that may have been thru some training if any to get this permit should be able to carry a loaded gun anywhere he goes, and let him determine when he should shoot, or kill someone. I guess you trust alot of people. I have a hard time understanding that. Mabey if you ever lost someone in a cross fire or seen it, it does happen, you may think a little different, about everyone carring a gun that is allowed too.


If not well I hope I never get into an argument with someone like you. You may just end up shooting me over a parking space.

there is no way to stop a criminal or crazy person from doing anything that they are determined to do. The thing people seem to be missing is you CAN STOP them once they start!!! Taking guns out of a law abiding citizens hands is not going to stop a criminal, it only empowers criminals and leaves innocent people defenseless. Had just one of the students yesterday had a gun there might not be 32 innocent people dead.

Just because someone is carrying a gun legally doesn't mean they are going to pull it out and shoot someone in an agurement, that's just dumb. You need to worry about the thugs and criminals carrying guns, not joe citizen.

as for the military, it's not a trust issue, the guy sitting in the office next to me just got out of the marines and says he could check his weapon out anytime he wanted, there was not a reason to carry it on base. You have it so much anyway and you are responsible if something happens to it and you don't want your commanding officer to know you let something happen to your weapon.

There was a crazy guy running over people in his SUV at UNC a couple of years ago, do we need to outlaw cars too?

[Jeepdawgs]

Originally Posted by ionakana

there is no way to stop a criminal or crazy person from doing anything that they are determined to do. The thing people seem to be missing is you CAN STOP them once they start!!! Taking guns out of a law abiding citizens hands is not going to stop a criminal, it only empowers criminals and leaves innocent people defenseless. Had just one of the students yesterday had a gun there might not be 32 innocent people dead.

Just because someone is carrying a gun legally doesn't mean they are going to pull it out and shoot someone in an agurement, that's just dumb. You need to worry about the thugs and criminals carrying guns, not joe citizen.

Our goal should be stopping them BEFORE they start, not once they start. Hindsight is always 20/20, but look at the warning signs that this guy showed. Where are family and friends that saw this guys downward spiral. You need to be proactive and not reactive. As far as if one student had a gun in the class room increases the chances that the shooter will have one more weapon.

What are the requirements that need to be meet before you pull your gun out? I believe it varies from state to state which makes everything even more confusing. If you brandish your weapon and the law determines you were wrong then guess you pays the price.

[2005Unlimited]

Originally Posted by ionakana

there is no way to stop a criminal or crazy person from doing anything that they are determined to do. The thing people seem to be missing is you CAN STOP them once they start!!! Taking guns out of a law abiding citizens hands is not going to stop a criminal, it only empowers criminals and leaves innocent people defenseless. Had just one of the students yesterday had a gun there might not be 32 innocent people dead.

Just because someone is carrying a gun legally doesn't mean they are going to pull it out and shoot someone in an agurement, that's just dumb. You need to worry about the thugs and criminals carrying guns, not joe citizen.

as for the military, it's not a trust issue, the guy sitting in the office next to me just got out of the marines and says he could check his weapon out anytime he wanted, there was not a reason to carry it on base. You have it so much anyway and you are responsible if something happens to it and you don't want your commanding officer to know you let something happen to your weapon.

There was a crazy guy running over people in his SUV at UNC a couple of years ago, do we need to outlaw cars too?

Well there are crazy guys in the military too. Highly trained crazy guys. Ask any MP

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Well there are crazy guys in the military too. Highly trained crazy guys. Ask any MP

yep, and they can access they're weapon anytime they wish

[2005Unlimited]

Well they still cannot carry it loaded for self protection. Its not aloud.

Why Not

[chim]

Gun control will never be successful in eliminating access to firearms by individuals who really shouldn't have them. Gun laws can only have an impact on those who choose to obey them.

One would think that if there's any place where strict control can be in place, and shooting could be prevented it would be a prison. A quick search on the net resulted in these hits.................chim

guard smuggles gun into prison
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595049632,00.html


Australian inmate has gun near cell
http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Crown-loses-appeal-on-prison-gun/2004/12/03/1101923332182.html?from=moreStories


Loaded firearm found inside "secured perimeter"
http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_217165638.html


Prison guard shoots it out with FBI inside prison
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/06/22/two_killed_in_shooting_at_prison_in_florida/

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by 2005Unlimited

Well they still cannot carry it loaded for self protection. Its not aloud.

Why Not

you answered you own question, self protection, then again, they're on a military base, if something happened the response would be quick, there are plenty of MP's around on base. The military has some goofy rules also, it's called discipline. I'll ask my co-worker tomorrow but I assume there are some military guys on here that can answer that.

Unforunately that's not the same for the rest of us. What is the response time for a cop to arrive if someone is doing something? Like someone said earlier, what do you do in that time period, sit down and have tea with the crazy person while you're waiting?

[RMeak]

Originally Posted by ionakana

yep, and they can access they're weapon anytime they wish

Must have been a different Military I was in then, because I could not just go and check out my personal weapon or my issued weapons.

The last thing we need is a more liberal concealed carry law. This Cho guy had planned this out and had students been allowed to carry concealed weapons then he would have had another plan....like a high powered rifle in a clock tower, then what good is your 9mm semi auto. When crazies want to kill they are gonna, unfortunately jumping off a bridge with a stick of dynamite is not dramatic enough for these losers, they have to take abunch of good people with them.

Untrained students on a college campus with guns is not a good idea, sorry. I have had alot of training and alot of practice and I would not want to carry a weapon concealed. College hormones and guns mix in a little alcohol and that would be one interesting homecoming.

[grymsr]

While perhaps firearms in the hands of teachers might have ended this sooner, its never going to happen. No school or college is ever going to allow faculty to carry on campus. Why not? One word: liability. What school district or college administration is going to accept the liability for the actions of its armed employees? None. I have a CCW permit and carried at work for years. Then management insisted that the Union include a No Firearms on company property clause to the contract. When the Union asked why the answer was "liability". The company would rather have an employee get killed by a criminal on the job and just have to pay workers comp, than have the employee defend themselves (or others) and risk a multi million $ lawsuit.

Great idea - never gonna happen.

[2005Unlimited]

Well I am not sure where we are going with this. But do college students have discipline. 21 - 28 years old.

The reaction time should be just about the same for MP's as it is for college cops.

I have worked as an MP, Corrections and MP investigator. You have stupid people every where. Does not mean everyone should carry a gun. You have your murders, rapists, serial killers everything in the military just not as much as the civilian world because we are not as big.

[ionakana]

Originally Posted by RMeak

Must have been a different Military I was in then, because I could not just go and check out my personal weapon or my issued weapons.

The last thing we need is a more liberal concealed carry law. This Cho guy had planned this out and had students been allowed to carry concealed weapons then he would have had another plan....like a high powered rifle in a clock tower, then what good is your 9mm semi auto. When crazies want to kill they are gonna, unfortunately jumping off a bridge with a stick of dynamite is not dramatic enough for these losers, they have to take abunch of good people with them.

Untraind students on a college campus with guns is not a good idea, sorry. I have had alot of training and alot of practice and I would not want to carry a weapon concealed. College hormones and guns mix in a little alcohol and that would be one interesting homecoming.

He just got out of the Marines, he said the Army or Navy was probably different, he didn't know but he could get his weapon anytime he wished.
Nobody is talking about untrained college kids carrying weapons. You have to have training to carry. I seriouly doubt that there would be many that would carry anyway if they could. The arguement I have made earlier in this thread is that the carry law would not change the number of people carrying guns dramatically, just the number carrying legally. If they go through the trouble of getting a concealed permit that means they had to take training.

[FreemasonJeeper]

You guys both must have been in a different military than I was. I was in the Air Force and if you lived in base housing, you could have as many guns as you wanted. You just couldn't have them in the dorms. I was also a Security Policeman and was trusted with a fully loaded, one in the chamber, on fire, 9mm Baretta and an M-16 everyday when I was only 18 years old. As an SP, we were charged with armory duty. The owner of the any guns stored in the armory could pick them up any time they wanted. The armory was manned 24 hours a day.