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Need some help from you guys about floor support and Aquarium weight

2K views 21 replies 10 participants last post by  MrHeels 
#1 ·
Hey guys. I live in a townhouse, built in 96 and in my bedroom I currently have a 27g hexagon and 92g corner bowfront tank. (tank bows in front and sits in a corner between two walls)

Im going to buy a 125g tank soon.. Its a 32 year old tank guy only wants $100 for it and thats dirt cheap considering new they are $600-650. It doesnt leak but i plan to re-seal it anyway. This tank was made in 1984 and so its very thick.. almost 1/2 inch thick glass compared to new 125's that are half that thickness but have center support braces. So the tank probably weighs 350-400lbs. Plus water going in it another 1200 lbs or so, so 1600 lbs of weight.. But its a 6 foot tank, so 1600lbs distributed by 6 feet. Only issue is the stand is a wrought iron stand with 4 legs.. so each legg will have 400 lbs of weight so the weight isnt really being distributed even on the floor like a wood stand would do. (although there is another 125g tank with a woodstand i might buy as well for $150 and then just sell one for a profit and keep the wood stand for myself)

Anyway, my bedroom is on the 3rd level. The room itself only has 2 walls on the outside of the house. One wall is the side outside wall, and the other is the front of the house. And the beams under the floor go in horizontal direction meaning front to the back of the house. The closet area of my bedroom there is a metal or perhaps wood support beam on the outside wall and then a big wood beam that rests on it and it goes vertical.. This allows for the horizontal beams to rest on that vertical support beam as joists. (because under my room is a giant open room with no load bearing walls)

I hope im making sense.. If not i made a crude picture in paint to show you guys. Now my 92g is against the outside front and side wall because its a corner tank. So its support by 2 walls and 3 or so joists. The only way i can fit the 125 in my room is by either putting it on the outside wall (the front of the house) and this way the tank is going vertical and the floor beams are going horizontal so the tank would be support by like 5-6 beams and joists. The only issue with this is my window is on the wall and the tank would block half the window.

The other option is to put the tank on the side wall (side of the house) but it would be going horizontal which is the way the floor beams go.. So it would be resting over the middle of the floor beams and only about 2 of them. I could move it as close as possible to that steel (or wood pole) thats supporting the the big beam thats going vertical that i mentioned and it would help with weight because then it would be on 2 floor beams and instead of in the middle of them, itll be on 2 joists and then partially in the middle.

Im sorry im not a engineer, and i hope i made sense.. I cant use the other walls because one wall is the entrance of my room and that would be directly over the middle of the floor (if you walk down stairs) and there is no load bearing wall down there its open floor. And i can use the other wall because its also just a wall seperating bedrooms and the level under is open flooring and no load bearing walls or anything as well.

Now in my opinion it would be best to put the tank along on the outside wall of the house this way its resting on 5-6 beams and their joists. But the window issue kinda blows.. so the best wall is the other wall but then itll only be on two beams.. and im not sure if that will hold weight wise. And yes of course im moving my 92g out

 
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#2 ·
I'd be most concerned about the four feet.
If they aren't sitting directly over a beam you will get floor sag and dimpling of the floor sheathing. Probably not enough to tip the whole tank but definitely enough to torque the stand and twist the tank. It would really suck to wake up one morning with all the fish on the floor because there was enough force on one corner to open the seam.
 
#4 ·
Everything you have listed is why most landlords have lessees wondering why they can't have a 10g tank.


You start asking how to install a few thousand pounds in your 3rd floor bedroom, then how to fix cracked drywall, a while later asking why your bedroom seems to be sloping, and eventually ask what the best way to get out of being trapped in your basement by rubble and broken fish tank.


Without consulting span tables, load tables for joist hangers etc id say... bad idea.
 
#5 ·
Um okay try to be a little more helpfull like your last sentence... instead of being a idiot saying im going to be buried in rubble in the basement..


edit: i just looked the beams are 2x10's with 14 1/2 spacing between them. I couldnt see the joists used because the beams in the basement rest on steel beams. I have to go in the attic to look at the joist hangers up there.

I also i just cut a little square in the drywall ceiling above the bedroom to see how the joists are placed.. and to my surpise there arent metal joists hangars at all, but 2x10's resting on a massive support beam i couldnt obviously measure how tall the beam was but its thickness is a tad over 2 inches so im guessing its probably a 3x12-16 support beam. Looking at how the flooring in the basement is done for the 2nd level.. that floor is also supported resting on steel beams. I dont think there are metal joist hangars anywhere in the house. From what ive see in the basement and the 2nd floor with my picture.. everything is being supported by large steel beams in the basement and then large wood support beams on the 2nd/3rd floor.

Also the beam span i measured is about 12 feet long until the joists rest on another support beam

Since there are no metal hangars on the joist beams and the 2x10s are actually resting on a support beam.. Am i safe to say 5-6 2x10's 14 inches apart resting on a 3x14 (im guessing 14) support beam can support 1500 lbs of tank ? lol
 

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#7 ·
Um okay try to be a little more helpfull like your last sentence... instead of being a idiot saying im going to be buried in rubble in the basement..

edit: i just looked the beams are 2x10's with 14 1/2 spacing between them. I couldnt see the joists used because the beams in the basement rest on steel beams. I have to go in the attic to look at the joist hangers up there.

I also i just cut a little square in the drywall ceiling above the bedroom to see how the joists are placed.. and to my surpise there arent metal joists hangars at all, but 2x10's resting on a massive support beam i couldnt obviously measure how tall the beam was but its thickness is a tad over 2 inches so im guessing its probably a 3x12-16 support beam. Looking at how the flooring in the basement is done for the 2nd level.. that floor is also supported resting on steel beams. I dont think there are metal joist hangars anywhere in the house. From what ive see in the basement and the 2nd floor with my picture.. everything is being supported by large steel beams in the basement and then large wood support beams on the 2nd/3rd floor.

Also the beam span i measured is about 12 feet long until the joists rest on another support beam

Since there are no metal hangars on the joist beams and the 2x10s are actually resting on a support beam.. Am i safe to say 5-6 2x10's 14 inches apart resting on a 3x14 (im guessing 14) support beam can support 1500 lbs of tank ? lol
Because 1. You being buried in the in the basement is funnier and 2. Everything up to that point is actually good info. So look past the obvious humor and don't be an idiot on the internet. Landlords get burned once by people asking to have an aquarium, the landlord assumes a little 10 or maybe 55 and says ok, only to find a monster and thousands in damages later on. After that, no aquariums period.

The first sign of exceeding a floors designed for load is cracks in the drywall. Drywall doesn't flex, at all. It shows stress that shouldn't be there. As that stress increases the floor begins to noticeably slope. Once that happens is only a matter of time before failure if the stress isn't removed. Joist hangers are rated for a certain load, assuming the proper nails are used. But a common problem in the industry, they're not used. Too many framers use whatever nails they have handy and you're already 1 strike down.

Then for giggles, google joist hangers and count the number of people that advocate using "joist hanger" nails because they're like magically strong. Except they're not. They're intended for exactly 1 thing, hanging the joist support. That little piece of metal. That's it. I've seen entirely to many floors basically supported by duct tape and hope. It's a matter of when they will fail, not if. A smart man plans on the worst until it's proven not to be.

So back to you. Your floor isn't 14 inches, its 16" oc (on center) so that's the number you want to be looking at on any tables. Not knowing the wood used, 2x10 16oc with a 12 span is plenty for a typical floor. That's 10lb dead and 40lb live weight. But you're going to exceed deflection limits if you try placing that weight anywhere but the ends unless you reinforce directly below. And that reinforcement needs to go all the way down or else you get multiple damaged floors. The weight limit on the joists ends isn't the same for the middle as your playing with the weakest part of the floor.

So that is for your preferred spot which is better for the aquarium.

The wall with the window is better for the house. But in front of a window is bad for the aquarium so pick your poison. Being beamed is a good thing, assuming the entire beam width is being used and it itself is properly supported you'll get the max benefit. If the joists are only resting on 1 inch of a 4 inch beam you don't get the strength of a 4 inch beam.

The best place for that amount of weight in that room is going to be the corner but the best pave in the house will be in the basement. The easiest place to have a properly supported display tank is going to be 1st floor as you can access and reinforce only in the basement and that opens up locations all over. Just reinforce below and the tank can go anywhere.
 
#8 ·
Just my opinion, but that is way too large and heavy for a third floor that is standard construction. You did not say (or I missed) what kind of tank you are wanting to setup, but...

If you are talking about a mini reef, you are also talking about 250-250 pounds of live rock, and thousands of dollars in lights, pumps, etc. then potentially thousands of dollars in livestock. The average mini reef of that size easily costs as much as a new Wrangler. ;)

A fresh water tank can cost a lot less, but usually gets up there too.

Hut the real reason is that unless you get an engineer in to reinforce the floor and probably the wall, you are risking the animal lives you keep as well as pretty massive damage to your home. By the way, insurance companies will look dimly on a water damage claim from a large tank on the 3rd floor of a townhome.

Have you considered just investing in a 200-300 gallon built in on the ground floor or basement? It is a Jeep sized project, but can be very rewarding.

Reef keeping is if anything, at least as expensive as Jeep keeping. :)
 
#22 ·
Just my opinion, but that is way too large and heavy for a third floor that is standard construction. You did not say (or I missed) what kind of tank you are wanting to setup, but...

If you are talking about a mini reef, you are also talking about 250-250 pounds of live rock, and thousands of dollars in lights, pumps, etc. then potentially thousands of dollars in livestock. The average mini reef of that size easily costs as much as a new Wrangler. ;)

A fresh water tank can cost a lot less, but usually gets up there too.

Hut the real reason is that unless you get an engineer in to reinforce the floor and probably the wall, you are risking the animal lives you keep as well as pretty massive damage to your home. By the way, insurance companies will look dimly on a water damage claim from a large tank on the 3rd floor of a townhome.

Have you considered just investing in a 200-300 gallon built in on the ground floor or basement? It is a Jeep sized project, but can be very rewarding.

Reef keeping is if anything, at least as expensive as Jeep keeping. :)
Yes, indeed live rocks are expensive, but they can give some ecosystem to your aquarium.
 
#10 ·
neither here nor there but putting X pounds of rocks, gravel, fish etc. Doesn't increase the weight by X. You have to remove the weight of the displaced water so you only add the difference. If you are doing a reef tank and using natural coral crushed and rock it is only like 1 pound per 10.




Back to tanks.
Once you get them all setup we need pictures!
 
#13 ·
I am constantly surprised by the things people do behind closed doors.

Nonetheless, there will be a local architect in your town who is charging $75 per hour and for whom it will take a short visit to your odd 3rd floor bedroom tank farm, consulting a table or two and give you the answer for under the cost of a couple of your probably continuously dying fish.

You might then avoid a costly battle with an insurance company or HOA who will tell you that your floor or wall system failures were not caused by an "occurrence" as they must be for insurance to kick in to fix what goes wrong with this plan.

Oh, and BTW, sitting in basement rubble is really not that far off if you are thinking about what a floor system failure might look like. I doubt your theory on the joists resting on a beam in the third floor. The attic does not matter. It is not a living space by code. There are no columns on floor two to support a beam above. And there is no such thing as a 3x12 used in residential construction. Assume that the 2x10 joists are attached to the wall with a $.79 joist hanger that might have most of its nails installed. So, under your plywood floor, the only thing keeping gravity from sending your humongous fish tanks downstairs are a couple of otherwise unsupported 2x10s held in place by little galvanized joist hangers that may or may not have been properly installed. And, I am sure you have seen plenty of reports of outdoor decks collapse. The only difference with your situation is that one does not usually have the combined weight of 30 or so people in the corner of a 3rd floor bedroom.
 
#15 ·
Well, they would have to be baby hippos to get to the weight he is describing above.

More over, the 4 chairs and dinner table would spread the load over almost the entire diagram above since the diameter of the table and chairs would be around 10-12 feet, supported by 7 to 8 floor joists instead of two (the plywood subfloor will distribute a very, very small part of the load to the third adjacent joist.
 
#16 ·
I just read through a few aquarium forums and none falling tough the floor but a concern was brought up about the floor settling become unlevel enough to cause the aquarium to crack.


It is does seem to be allot of weight in one place. I did it for about two to three year with a 120 or so gallon tank and never had an issue. But I doubt I will ever do it again.


Even if the floor could hold the wait, if you have an OSB sub floor and overtime spill enough water maybe you could have a problem with even a smaller tank.
 
#17 ·


That was my first 'big' aquarium, many years ago. It's 4' on a side, 18" tall and I don't recall the weight. I also had a 20g sump underneath. It's on multiple supported/reinforced floor joists on the ground level.

What you can't see in the pic is the window directly to the left, and the crack in the drywall that started in the upper right corner...
 
#18 ·


That was my first 'big' aquarium, many years ago. It's 4' on a side, 18" tall and I don't recall the weight. I also had a 20g sump underneath. It's on multiple supported/reinforced floor joists on the ground level.

What you can't see in the pic is the window directly to the left, and the crack in the drywall that started in the upper right corner...
Beautifultank. And, you took the precautions.

I calculate that as 177 gallons plus the sump or around 200 gal. That equates to 1660 pounds plus the tank, stand and sand. Wow!
 
#19 ·
Did Candymancan get killed by an aquarium?

His last post was November last year.

"Um okay try to be a little more helpfull like your last sentence... instead of being a idiot saying im going to be buried in rubble in the basement.. "

GW
 
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#21 ·
Did Candymancan get killed by an aquarium?

His last post was November last year.

"Um okay try to be a little more helpfull like your last sentence... instead of being a idiot saying im going to be buried in rubble in the basement.. "

GW
Quick Google search says no. Guessing the landlord found out or he couldn't take the well deserved comebacks...im sure he'll come back.
 
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