Jan 30 -- Mythbusters vs. Plane on a Treadmill (finally!) - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:36 AM   #46
ancestralworm
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if the fictional super treadmill was set to automatically, instantaneously match the wheel speed then it would stay at zero and move in reverse with the forward motion of the plain. if it was set in exponentially speed up the wheels then the wheel bearings would fail. and because this is all imaginary equipment that doesn't conform the the laws of physics then i say the wheel bearings will explode in an incredible fashion causing the entire soler system to crash in on itself creating a singularity so powerfully that the GRB created scalds all stars and planets within 200,000 light years.

the wheel speed has no affect on the forward motion of the plane or the upward force of the wings by the air moving past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopod
The treadmill must match the wheel speed though. I understand that, under normal circumstances, the wheels have very little friction, and that they use greased bearings.

But this is a hypothetical conveyor belt, not a real life one. So it must match the wheel speed, which will cause the wheels to move faster, which will cause the conveyor to match them again, which will cause them to move faster, etc.

It depends on how long the conveyor belt takes to match the speed of the wheels. If it's instantaneous, than the wheels and treadmill will accelerate to infinity instantly. I think it's safe to say that a wheel moving at infinity rpm would have quite a bit of friction.


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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:37 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucbandit10
the friction between the wheels and conveyor belt are negligable. spinning wheels have nothing to do with lift/air speed. Who care how fast the belt is moving because the plane is still staying in one spot( if it were to match the belt speed). The plane on the belt is only going to produce lift over the section of the wing that is right behind the propeller, which is not enought air to produce enough lift for takeoff. Why would engineers make wings 20+ ft long if the lift over a 5 ft span is enough to fly the thing?



The only reason I keep reading this thread is to laugh at you people.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:37 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucbandit10
the friction between the wheels and conveyor belt are negligable. spinning wheels have nothing to do with lift/air speed. Who care how fast the belt is moving because the plane is still staying in one spot( if it were to match the belt speed). The plane on the belt is only going to produce lift over the section of the wing that is right behind the propeller, which is not enought air to produce enough lift for takeoff. Why would engineers make wings 20+ ft long if the lift over a 5 ft span is enough to fly the thing?
Physics. Learn it.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:39 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
no, what i'm saying is that the thrust of the engine pulls the plane foward. it pushes on the wheels bacause gravity pulls down on the plane and put's all of it's weight on the wheels. so when the thrust pulls the plane foward the wheels are what's allowing the plane to movefoward(or skis like you pictured). but when that foward movement is cancled out by the runway moving in the oppsite direction at the same speed the plane will be at full throttle and producing thrust, but it will not be moveing anywhere. it will be pushing foward, the treadmill will be moveing back and the wheels that are the meadien for the two will be moveing at twice the speed of the treadmill (or what the plane would be moveing at). and as we all know planes need air moveing over the wings at a certent speed to create lift so it can take off. the engine does not create lift, it creates thrust that allows lift to happen when not opposed. so like i've been saying and thinking the whole time with no air moving over the wings their will be no lift and no plane takeing off.
The ONLY way the treadmill can resist the plane moving forward is through friction in the wheels. The scenario you are creating in your mind cannot happen in real life. The treadmill would have to be moving at 10 times the speed of light before you'd get that much friction. And you'll never find a treadmill that fast or wheels that wouldn't disintegrate.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
figuring that i can stay on my feet and maintain my balance and still beable to run. then yes if i were on a tred mill that could match my speed in the other direction i would stay in one place.
You just said you could hold back the force of a jet pack. I think everybody should place you on their ignore list because your lack of knowledge is astounding.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:40 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=dopod]The treadmill must match the wheel speed though. I understand that, under normal circumstances, the wheels have very little friction, and that they use greased bearings.

QUOTE]

The original riddle said that the treadmill matched the speed of the plane and not the speed of the wheels.

Later someone reintroduced the riddle on JeepForum, but they reworded it to say that the wheel speed was matched by the treadmill. That would be impossible to pull off because as the plane is moved forward, the treadmill speed would be forced to go to infinity. The outside force of thrust will move the plane regardless of what the treadmill is doing. If the plane is moving, then by definition, the treadmill cannot go at the same speed as the wheels. The second riddle is flawed and violates the laws of physics. The second riddle only works if the plane's brakes are applied and the treadmill is unplugged.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:41 AM   #52
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The only reason I keep reading this thread is to laugh at you people.
Quote:
Physics. Learn it.
explain...
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:41 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workinprogress
You just said you could hold back the force of a jet pack. I think everybody should place you on their ignore list because your lack of knowledge is astounding.
But he wouldn't actually have to do much, because the treadmill would be doing all the work.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:43 AM   #54
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Where did this whole debate start?
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:43 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucbandit10
explain...
If you would learn to read, you would already know that it has been explained.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:43 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucbandit10
explain...

This has been explained so many times by so many people that the only way on planet earth that you could possibly not understand is if you are either too ignorant or stubborn to accept it. There is clearly no possible way that I could explain it in a way you will accept, and that's saying a lot. I teach special ed, for crying out loud.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:45 AM   #57
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It depends on the wording of the question;

If the treadmill is set to match the plane's forward speed then unless you have some particularly sticky wheels and an incredibly asthmatic engine, the plane will take off and the treadmill will simply be traveling at the same speed in the opposite direction.

If the treadmill is set to match the wheel's forward speed then you have created a situation that's first of all impossible to attain in real life, but mostly, the plane cannot move at all without having it's wheels travel faster than the treadmill, thus violating the only condition, ergo the plane isn't allowed to move and so cannot take off.

Mythbuster's will be testing the first scenario since the second scenario is impossible to create in the real world, therefore their plane will quite obviously fly.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:46 AM   #58
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I love this argument, it's so much funnier than the chevy vs ford or what brand winch to buy debates. Physics isn't subjective to opinion. No-one ever flies off into space because they looked at gravity and said "nu-uh".
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:49 AM   #59
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Winner = Kyoseki for using the word 'ergo'.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 10:49 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Tex
The original riddle said that the treadmill matched the speed of the plane and not the speed of the wheels.
Well I aways thought it was supposed to match the wheels. If it's supposed to match the speed of the plane than I agree with you.
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