Jan 30 -- Mythbusters vs. Plane on a Treadmill (finally!) - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 01-22-2008, 08:26 AM   #16
juiceparn
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Yes it will fly. The wheels will spin twice as fast but they have nothing to do with airspeed. The thrust is from the prop which pulls air, regardless of whether or not the ground is moving underneath. An airplane can fly without moving forward if there is enough airspeed to create lift. I fly a cessna 172 which on occasion gets landed and takes off with minimal ground speed. Airspeed is all that matters and a treadmill doesn't effect the air, only wheel spin.

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Unread 01-22-2008, 08:48 AM   #17
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The wheel speed does have something to do with taking off. The faster the wheels spin, the more friction they will put on the plane. Friction which will slow it down.

Plane starts moving=the wheels start turning, then the conveyor belt spins to match them, which causes the wheels to move faster, which causes the conveyor to move faster, which causes the wheels to move faster and so on...

The plane will move forward on the conveyor belt for some distance, but there is no real answer as to if it will take off (unless mythbusters actually matches the wheel speed to conveyor belt speed exactly, which they aren't/can't). Maybe it will go 30 feet and the wheels will be spinning so fast that the bearings burn up/tires fall apart and the plane is done. Or maybe the tires are up to the task and the plane has enough power to overcome the friction and it does take off.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:01 AM   #18
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ok i'm going to make it FINAL it WILL NOT TAKE OFF

that is becuase although the prop is trying to pull the plane in one direction the belt is pulling at the same speed in the oppsite direction hence the plane will be sitting still on the run way, no air over the wings(other then that produced by the prop that isnt enough to make lift). so no air over the wings means that their is no lift and NO PLANE TAKEING OFF!!!

think about it as the same as running on a ted mill opposed to running on real ground. when on real ground and your moving foward you feel air rushing by your face. when your on a tred mill running the same speed you dont feel air rushing by your face because you are standing in one place!!!!
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:03 AM   #19
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People who think the plane won't take off are stupid people, and they should be relegated to meaningless jobs in public service, where they can be told what to do by legions of people who are smarter than they are but get no credit. The simple fact that this will be on television is a testament to the idiocy of the average American.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:04 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jeep-jeep-01
Yes, I'm well aware because I posted in it.

I made a new one because there is a definitive date now and a small clip... I didn't want them to get lost and go unnoticed in that quagmire of a thread.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
ok i'm going to make it FINAL it WILL NOT TAKE OFF

that is becuase although the prop is trying to pull the plane in one direction the belt is pulling at the same speed in the oppsite direction hence the plane will be sitting still on the run way, no air over the wings(other then that produced by the prop that isnt enough to make lift). so no air over the wings means that their is no lift and NO PLANE TAKEING OFF!!!

think about it as the same as running on a ted mill opposed to running on real ground. when on real ground and your moving foward you feel air rushing by your face. when your on a tred mill running the same speed you dont feel air rushing by your face because you are standing in one place!!!!

Unless you have ****ty wheels that can't spin fast enough without a ton of drag then groundspeed doesn't matter. It's nothing like running on or off of a treadmill. The thrust is created with air not wheels. If the wheels can truly spin freely it doesn't matter how fast the treadmill goes. It flies.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep

think about it as the same as running on a ted mill opposed to running on real ground. when on real ground and your moving foward you feel air rushing by your face. when your on a tred mill running the same speed you dont feel air rushing by your face because you are standing in one place!!!!
WOW.

If you were running on a treadmill trying to feel wind in your face and I snuck up behind you and kicked you in the ***, you would move forward and feel wind in your face, because the force that is moving you forward has nothing to do with the treadmill.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandRover
People who think the plane won't take off are stupid people, and they should be relegated to meaningless jobs in public service, where they can be told what to do by legions of people who are smarter than they are but get no credit. The simple fact that this will be on television is a testament to the idiocy of the average American.
I agree completely except the fact that Mythbusters could still prove them right and then they'll never shut up about. As long as Mythbusters doesn't muck up the test then it will most definitely take off.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:12 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceparn
Unless you have ****ty wheels that can't spin fast enough without a ton of drag then groundspeed doesn't matter. It's nothing like running on or off of a treadmill. The thrust is created with air not wheels. If the wheels can truly spin freely it doesn't matter how fast the treadmill goes. It flies.

yes the trust is created via air being moved. but all thrust does is pull or push the plane in a direction. it donst acculy create lift. so like i said if a plane is being forced in one direction yet the ground under it is being moved in the oppsite direction the plane isnt moveing. it is staying in one spot. so their will be no air over the wings to create lift and no plane takeing off.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandRover
WOW.

If you were running on a treadmill trying to feel wind in your face and I snuck up behind you and kicked you in the ***, you would move forward and feel wind in your face, because the force that is moving you forward has nothing to do with the treadmill.

no not in accordance to this myth i wouldn't. the tredmill would be matching my speed exactly in the oppsite direction at all times so even if you were to kick me in the *** and speed me up the tedmill would also speed up and no diffrence would be noticed.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
no not in accordance to this myth i wouldn't. the tredmill would be matching my speed exactly in the oppsite direction at all times so even if you were to kick me in the *** and speed me up the tedmill would also speed up and no diffrence would be noticed.
So what you're saying is that if you strapped a jet pack to your back you wouldn't move forward because the treadmill is matching your speed exactly? Wow, I feel sorry for your parents.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:30 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by workinprogress
So what you're saying is that if you strapped a jet pack to your back you wouldn't move forward because the treadmill is matching your speed exactly? Wow, I feel sorry for your parents.

figuring that i can stay on my feet and maintain my balance and still beable to run. then yes if i were on a tred mill that could match my speed in the other direction i would stay in one place.

as another anologny its like the same as putting a car on a giant tredmill. it could be a 2000HP top fuel dragster but as long the surface it is on can match it in the oppsite direction at the same speed it will sit still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPYEB...eature=related

you can see in this video at about the 50 second mark, when the tredmill is going as fast as the car is the car just sits still in one spot. although it's motors are pushing it (thrust from the prop if it were a plane) foward.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
figuring that i can stay on my feet and maintain my balance and still beable to run. then yes if i were on a tred mill that could match my speed in the other direction i would stay in one place.

as another anologny its like the same as putting a car on a giant tredmill. it could be a 2000HP top fuel dragster but as long the surface it is on can match it in the oppsite direction at the same speed it will sit still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPYEB...eature=related

you can see in this video at about the 50 second mark, when the tredmill is going as fast as the car is the car just sits still in one spot. although it's motors are pushing it (thrust from the prop if it were a plane) foward.
are you kidding me!

the force pushing a drag car forward is transmitted through the ground. an airplane is forcing air back in return pushing it forward. the tredmill can be set on a kabillion miles an hour but if it is not producing any wind resistance on the plane then it dont f-ing matter! the plane will move forward, reach its speed and lift off the ground!

why am i even arguing this? you should stick to something easier like tic tac toe.
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancestralworm
the tredmill can be set on a kabillion miles an hour but if it is not producing any wind resistance on the plane then it dont f-ing matter!
But it IS producing resistance. Friction from the spinning wheels. Read post 17
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Unread 01-22-2008, 09:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red96jeep
ok i'm going to make it FINAL it WILL NOT TAKE OFF

that is becuase although the prop is trying to pull the plane in one direction the belt is pulling at the same speed in the oppsite direction hence the plane will be sitting still on the run way, no air over the wings(other then that produced by the prop that isnt enough to make lift). so no air over the wings means that their is no lift and NO PLANE TAKEING OFF!!!

think about it as the same as running on a ted mill opposed to running on real ground. when on real ground and your moving foward you feel air rushing by your face. when your on a tred mill running the same speed you dont feel air rushing by your face because you are standing in one place!!!!

Since the wind is not affected by the treadmill, look at it this way. You are running on a treadmill. A Hummer is sitting in front of the treadmill, and it's winch cable is connected to your belt. When you start the winch, you are drug off of the front of the treadmill, even though the treadmill is going backwards as fast as you can run. Even the Hummer will jerk you off of the treadmill and skin your knee just like the prop will pull the plane forward with no regard for how fast the treadmill is going backwards.

p.s. The friction on the wheel bearings and wheel's moment of inertia are negligable unless the brakes are applied.
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