[lawdogg]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-'less-likely-to-believe-in-God'.html

Professor Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at Ulster University, said many more members of the "intellectual elite" considered themselves atheists than the national average.

A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence, he claimed.

But the conclusions - in a paper for the academic journal Intelligence - have been branded "simplistic" by critics.

Professor Lynn, who has provoked controversy in the past with research linking intelligence to race and sex, said university academics were less likely to believe in God than almost anyone else.

A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God - at a time when 68.5 per cent of the general UK population described themselves as believers.

A separate poll in the 90s found only seven per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.

Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence - and their intelligence increased - many started to have doubts.

He told Times Higher Education magazine: "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."

He said religious belief had declined across 137 developed nations in the 20th century at the same time as people became more intelligent.

But Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society at Birkbeck College, London, said it failed to take account of a complex range of social, economic and historical factors.

"Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive, which - while we are trying to deal with very complex issues of religious and cultural pluralism - is perhaps not the most helpful response," he said.

Dr Alistair McFadyen, senior lecturer in Christian theology at Leeds University, said the conclusion had "a slight tinge of Western cultural imperialism as well as an anti-religious sentiment".

Dr David Hardman, principal lecturer in learning development at London Metropolitan University, said: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief. Nonetheless, there is evidence from other domains that higher levels of intelligence are associated with a greater ability - or perhaps willingness - to question and overturn strongly felt institutions."

[War Eagle]

Interesting correlation but that's about it. While statistics can point out relationships between multiple factors the numbers alone don't explain why those relationships exist.

[DFA]

Just because people chose not to believe in God does not mean that God doesnt exist.

[KeeptheJeep]

Originally Posted by lawdogg

Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence - and their intelligence increased - many started to have doubts.

Matthew 18, 2-4
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 and said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I think perhaps the suppposed "highly intelligent" lose sight ofthis simple truth.

I know I have tried to overthink or use "logic" to try and change what I believed in, but I realized that I was just trying to make it more my own selfish reasons. The truth is always very simple and straightforward not usaully the thing you want to hear or accept. Thats why we are told to have faith like a child.

[PJL]

Originally Posted by DFA

Just because people chose not to believe in God does not mean that God doesnt exist.

That's very true. But a lot of people who don't believe in God aren't necessarily completely closed off to the idea that a god or higher power exists, but that (1) there's no evidence on which to base the belief, and (2) that the gods that are constructs of human religion don't exist.

Originally Posted by KeeptheJeep

I think perhaps the suppposed "highly intelligent" lose sight ofthis simple truth.

But the problem is, it's only a "truth" if you accept the basic premise that the Bible is true and in the supernatural nature of Jesus, neither of which are objectively provable. Part of intelligence, in my opinion, is skepticism.

Thats why we are told to have faith like a child.

Yeah, but children also play with invisible friends and talk to toys. Having "faith like a child" really means to have uncritical, undoubting faith. As an adult, I can't do that. But again, faith and logic don't really mix.

[KeeptheJeep]

Originally Posted by PJL

That's very true. But a lot of people who don't believe in God aren't necessarily completely closed off to the idea that a god or higher power exists, but that (1) there's no evidence on which to base the belief, and (2) that the gods that are constructs of human religion don't exist.

What would it take for you to believe that God does exist?
Voice from heaven? Miracles? Dream? personal revelation?

Honest answer please. Not arguing, just wondering.

[ionakana]

oh no, not another God exists, no he doesn't thread. Close this thread now!

oh look, a new smilie...

[KeeptheJeep]

Originally Posted by PJL

But the problem is, it's only a "truth" if you accept the basic premise that the Bible is true and in the supernatural nature of Jesus, neither of which are objectively provable. Part of intelligence, in my opinion, is skepticism.

Lots a men through history have given quotes that are considered bits of wisdom or truth. Just because someone may not believe in Jesus as a supernatural being doesn't mean that any wisdom he spoke should be discounted.

[PJL]

Originally Posted by KeeptheJeep

What would it take for you to believe that God does exist?
Voice from heaven? Miracles? Dream? personal revelation?

Honest answer please. Not arguing, just wondering.

Maybe, although I wouldn't necessarily consider a dream significant. I was raised religious - Roman Catholic - and I practiced that religion into my teen years. Problem is, no matter how much faith I had or thought I had, I didn't really "find God." I think it's interesting, though, how you read in the Old Testament of God talking with and interacting with everyone, openly performing miracles, then you have the New Testament where he sends Jesus, again, openly performing miracles, etc. So why now, in an age of instant global communication, recorded history, and widespread literacy doesn't that happen? If God really wanted Jesus to reach as many as possible and save as many as possible, why wouldn't he send him now rather than 2,000 years ago? Why did Jesus talk of having "faith" when he supposedly performed miracles directly in front of people? Surely if you saw someone perform a miracle that would be considered proof of supernatural power, whereas faith is belief without proof.

Originally Posted by KeeptheJeep

Lots a men through history have given quotes that are considered bits of wisdom or truth. Just because someone may not believe in Jesus as a supernatural being doesn't mean that any wisdom he spoke should be discounted.

True, but that's not a "golden rule" bit of wisdom or something generally applicable to life. That's directly talking about a religious idea - you can only enter the kingdom of heaven if you have the faith of a child. Not really a nugget of general applicability. By the way, I have to admit that I love the general message of Christ. I try to live by it, really. I just don't believe ultimately that the Bible is supernaturally true.

[KeeptheJeep]

PJL, you stated earlier that you think faith is blind. I disagree, but I just wanted to share this story with you just so maybe you could see my viewpoint a little better and why I have faith. I think I understand your perspective.


This story is not my own account...

I remember my daughter when she began toddling, then walking. She was a little bundle of energy! Our house was her whole world. She didn't know what was outside it, at least not past her yard. She didn't understand the vastness and complexity of what was beyond her own little world.

Well, she and I began going for walks around the neighborhood, ranging far and wide. Once the house was out of sight, she could not return on her own. She was lost. She had no idea where to go or what to do, or even if she was safe.

Yet as we crossed one street after another, she held my hand and knew deep in her heart that she was safe. She knew her father loved her and would always do what was best for her. She knew her father would protect her from all harm and guide her in the best way to go, every single time. All she had to do was hold his hand and do what he told her to do and she would have fun along the way, whether she knew where she was going or not!

She didn't get scared or hesitate. She embraced the trip down strange new streets as an adventure, with full confidence in her father. That's how Jesus said we should be; like a child. It's called faith.

[PJL]

Originally Posted by KeeptheJeep

PJL, you stated earlier that you think faith is blind. I disagree...

I didn't say faith is blind, I said faith is belief without proof. I don't think that's a particularly contentious or argumentative definition. The Bible suggests this as well, whether you're talking about the quote from Matthew above or the account of Jesus and Thomas, where Jesus says something along the lines of "blessed is he who believes but has not seen."

[LaCeS OuT]

I guess Im pretty intelligent. I always knew

[NaeKid]

Originally Posted by KeeptheJeep

What would it take for you to believe that God does exist?
Voice from heaven? Miracles? Dream? personal revelation?

It is a "personal experience" - something that cannot be easily described in words. From the movie "Matrix":

Originally Posted by Oracle

Do you know what that means? [points to a banner] It means know thy self. I wanna tell you a little secret, being the one is just like being in love. No one needs to tell you you are in love, you just know it, through and through. Balls to bones.

Those who are "smart" know stuff - but - do they know themselves through and through? Once you know yourself, you can start to know God. That is just a hint at what God will ask you when you see him, personally, for the first time. What do you want?

Do you want to say to him "I didn't believe you existed" .. and see the tears of pain?

- Or -

Do you want to say to him "I believed you were there - and here you are" .. and see the tears of joy?

You have a life-time to decide ... does God exist or not?

[LaCeS OuT]

Originally Posted by NaeKid

Do you want to say to him "I didn't believe you existed" .. and see the tears of pain?

"If" this is true and there is a God I would say this. Hopefully He does tear.

God is like the degenerate dad who never comes around...

And what happened to all the Greek and Roman Gods? I guess those were false and now there is only 1 God.

To me religion is a business. Nothing more, nothing less.

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Interesting correlation but that's about it. While statistics can point out relationships between multiple factors the numbers alone don't explain why those relationships exist.

Reminds me of this:

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.