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Unread 05-26-2014, 08:01 PM   #1
TedderX_
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Gun Guys

I have a gun question.

Historically, what type of gun would Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, and the Long Hunter era have used?

Flintlock or caplock? .50 caliber or .54 caliber? Rifled or no? Circular barrel or octagon barrel? what length? etc. Any details would greatly help!

Thanks so much guys!

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Unread 05-27-2014, 07:27 AM   #2
Balvar24
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.36 Caliber. Economical on lead and powder. Flintlock. Rifled octagon barrrel, often fasioned from a piece of flat stock.

You see both half-stock and full stock variants.
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Unread 05-27-2014, 09:55 AM   #3
thantos858
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They all used different sizes of guns throughout their life. As for caliber it varied on game and time however the caliber went down as you go later in that era since game was smaller and the Native Americans weren't being fought. There are some sources that say some of Crockett's rifles were percussion cap.
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Unread 05-27-2014, 10:21 AM   #4
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Probably something like:

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Unread 05-27-2014, 10:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
Probably something like:

You seem to have a fetish with fingers and your nose!
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Unread 05-27-2014, 11:32 AM   #6
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You seem to have a fetish with fingers and your nose!
****ing allergies man. Either that or I was sniffing a combination of black powder and anus juice. Either way, delightful!
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Unread 05-27-2014, 01:11 PM   #7
Balvar24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
Probably something like:

That's more of a Hawken/Plains style rifle (think Jeremiah Johnson). They tended to be larger in caliber with a heavier barrel (due to having more power). As a result of the heavier barrels, length was often shorter than Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifles.

Crockett's "Old Betsy" was alleged to be .40 caliber.

I've got a locally (Kentucky) built rifle from 1865. It's .36 caliber with half stock and long barrel. The stock appears to be maple or perhaps chestnut (commonly available). The lock is a period percusion "back lock."

Crockett and Boone predate this by a bit.
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Unread 05-27-2014, 06:28 PM   #8
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Good eye! It is a Hawken, "kit" replica in .50 caliber. The stock was finished from stock wold as was the bluing. It's one of my favorites (sadly it's my dads.) They made other calibers higher but not lower I believe. Hawken was about the era, however, I believe you are right that a "Kentucky" style rifle in flintlock would be truer to the time frame. Most likely in a .46 or .36 caliber. Rifled and octagon barrel as you said. For the time, they didn't need a bigger caliber.

Really Tedder, there were so many different styles and arms being manufactured during that era, it would be impossible to tell, except of course of documented cases like Davey Crocketts "Old Betsy" which was also made in a .48 caliber, not just a .40. He did own the .40 though. Really, any long octagonal barrel flintlock would have been about right as Balvar said.

And because I like whoring stuff, here's a pic of my buddy shooting the .50 Hawken with 110 grains.



You also can't got wrong with the fire from the 1851 Colt Navy .36.




Before you say it, yes, I thought it was cool back then to wear camo. I learned since then.
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Unread 05-27-2014, 09:46 PM   #9
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Thanks fellas. This is exactly the kind of conversation I wanted to have. I'm purchasing this rifle for a couple reasons. I want it to be a wall-hanger as a centerpiece for a room but still able to be taken down and used for practicing/fun shooting, and a rare hunt or two. Also, I want it to be "historically-accurate" as possible, in the spirit of the era. I.e.- I know I don't need to buy a wheellock, etc.

So I'm definitely looking at flintlock, octagon barrel with rifling, full stock (personal preference) and .50 caliber, to kill larger game like deer. And you guys said the longer barrel as well, correct? The shorter barrel didn't come out until later.

How does a person hunt turkey with a muzzleloader? Normally I use my 12 gauge but a shotgun is a whole-different ballpark.

Last question, and forgive my lack of technical terms/knowledge. Does rifled muzzleloaders only shoot "bullets" or do they shoot ball also? What did they historically use in this era?



Just a little FYI, I'm getting out of "modern" hunting and going to "primitive" hunting. I will buy a .50 caliber inline muzzleloader as my "main" gun to replace my current 30/30 for deer hunting. I will also be doing the same with archery. A traditional style long-blow (wall hanger/fun shooting) and a compound bow for my "main" hunting bow.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 12:14 AM   #10
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.....Before you say it, yes, I thought it was cool back then to wear camo. I learned since then.
Have you 'learned' anything about eye protection.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 07:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedderX_ View Post
Thanks fellas. This is exactly the kind of conversation I wanted to have. I'm purchasing this rifle for a couple reasons. I want it to be a wall-hanger as a centerpiece for a room but still able to be taken down and used for practicing/fun shooting, and a rare hunt or two. Also, I want it to be "historically-accurate" as possible, in the spirit of the era. I.e.- I know I don't need to buy a wheellock, etc.

So I'm definitely looking at flintlock, octagon barrel with rifling, full stock (personal preference) and .50 caliber, to kill larger game like deer. And you guys said the longer barrel as well, correct? The shorter barrel didn't come out until later.

How does a person hunt turkey with a muzzleloader? Normally I use my 12 gauge but a shotgun is a whole-different ballpark.

Last question, and forgive my lack of technical terms/knowledge. Does rifled muzzleloaders only shoot "bullets" or do they shoot ball also? What did they historically use in this era?



Just a little FYI, I'm getting out of "modern" hunting and going to "primitive" hunting. I will buy a .50 caliber inline muzzleloader as my "main" gun to replace my current 30/30 for deer hunting. I will also be doing the same with archery. A traditional style long-blow (wall hanger/fun shooting) and a compound bow for my "main" hunting bow.
I'm not an expert on era correct flintlock rifles. I do not use the .50 caliber Hawken to hunt with, only for fun. I am sure they used lead shot of some sort for foul. There are .50 caliber lead balls you can shoot, but also, plenty of manufacturers are producing Sabot rounds. Maybe someone can answer that, but didn't they shoot both styles about that time? I don't know about barrel length, I assume a longer barrel was for accuracy due to the lack of rifling?

I like where you are going with this. I plan on getting my wife and I re-curve bow for hunting and sport as well. What kind of black power muzzleloader are you thinking about getting? There are some nice ones out there. I would like to own a few different ones someday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cause View Post
Have you 'learned' anything about eye protection.
Oh! Yes, I did. It was getting dark, too dark for sunglasses, and I did not have my shooting glasses with me then. We shot that at dusk purposly to capture the fire from the muzzle.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 11:12 AM   #12
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Some states allow only shotguns or archery for turkey. Check you're local laws.

Green mountain used to sell shot-gun barrels (28GA, I think) for a T/C Hawken or Renegade.

As for bullets, you can use a patch and ball, sabot, etc. The LEE R.E.A.L moulds make a nice bullet, especially if you're using real black powder and don't want to clean between shots.

As for Flint/cap, flintlock takes longer for the fire to get from the pan to the chamber, so you're going to have to get used to that from an accuracy stand point. But, oh boy, does all that smoke and those sparks make for a good show.

I think Crockett had at least two Betsy's. I think "Pretty Betsy" was .48, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

If nothing else, always be EXTREMELY careful handling and storing real black powder. A little static electricity or spark is all it takes to get you killed. Also, keep your face away from the barrel when loading and driving a bullet home.

Used, to be, Dixie Gun Works was THE place for muzzleloading rifles/kits/supplies.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 11:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedderX_ View Post
Thanks fellas. This is exactly the kind of conversation I wanted to have. I'm purchasing this rifle for a couple reasons. I want it to be a wall-hanger as a centerpiece for a room but still able to be taken down and used for practicing/fun shooting, and a rare hunt or two. Also, I want it to be "historically-accurate" as possible, in the spirit of the era. I.e.- I know I don't need to buy a wheellock, etc.

So I'm definitely looking at flintlock, octagon barrel with rifling, full stock (personal preference) and .50 caliber, to kill larger game like deer. And you guys said the longer barrel as well, correct? The shorter barrel didn't come out until later.

How does a person hunt turkey with a muzzleloader? Normally I use my 12 gauge but a shotgun is a whole-different ballpark.

Last question, and forgive my lack of technical terms/knowledge. Does rifled muzzleloaders only shoot "bullets" or do they shoot ball also? What did they historically use in this era?



Just a little FYI, I'm getting out of "modern" hunting and going to "primitive" hunting. I will buy a .50 caliber inline muzzleloader as my "main" gun to replace my current 30/30 for deer hunting. I will also be doing the same with archery. A traditional style long-blow (wall hanger/fun shooting) and a compound bow for my "main" hunting bow.
Yep, check your regs to see what's legal. Generally the way you hunt with blackpowder is 1. shoot. 2. wait for smoke to clear 3. put out the brush fire and finally 4 go see if you hit anything
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Unread 05-28-2014, 06:18 PM   #14
TedderX_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindicated View Post
I'm not an expert on era correct flintlock rifles. I do not use the .50 caliber Hawken to hunt with, only for fun. I am sure they used lead shot of some sort for foul. There are .50 caliber lead balls you can shoot, but also, plenty of manufacturers are producing Sabot rounds. Maybe someone can answer that, but didn't they shoot both styles about that time? I don't know about barrel length, I assume a longer barrel was for accuracy due to the lack of rifling?

I like where you are going with this. I plan on getting my wife and I re-curve bow for hunting and sport as well. What kind of black power muzzleloader are you thinking about getting? There are some nice ones out there. I would like to own a few different ones someday.



Oh! Yes, I did. It was getting dark, too dark for sunglasses, and I did not have my shooting glasses with me then. We shot that at dusk purposly to capture the fire from the muzzle.

I'm buying the kind I described. Unless you're talking brand, I don't know that far ahead yet. I'm just now figuring out what I need to look for.






Other guys: I'm not worried about the legality of a muzzleloader and turkey hunting; I'll get that squared away. I'm worried about the "how to" of turkey hunting with a muzzleloader. It seems to me firing a .50 caliber at a turkey is like shooting an a-bomb at a fly. You'd incinerate any usable meat you wanted. So, how did they do it? Lol.



And, for my clarification, is a "bullet" (not ball) called a "sabot" round that you all are speaking of?
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Unread 05-28-2014, 08:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedderX_ View Post

I'm buying the kind I described. Unless you're talking brand, I don't know that far ahead yet. I'm just now figuring out what I need to look for.

Other guys: I'm not worried about the legality of a muzzleloader and turkey hunting; I'll get that squared away. I'm worried about the "how to" of turkey hunting with a muzzleloader. It seems to me firing a .50 caliber at a turkey is like shooting an a-bomb at a fly. You'd incinerate any usable meat you wanted. So, how did they do it? Lol.

And, for my clarification, is a "bullet" (not ball) called a "sabot" round that you all are speaking of?
The common word for ammo being a "round" came from the lead balls used in muskets because they were round hence a thousand rounds etc. The bullet, the traditional shape you are used to is what's called a minie ball. Then you have traditional sabots.

As far as the shot, they used something similar to #4 shot with a wad. It's powder, wad, pellets wad I believe. The second wad being something like cardboard to keep the shot from falling out. You will have to look it up. I don't know what the used for wadding back then, probably some sort of felt? Is an art for sure. If you find something let me know cause I'm curious.

Edit:And if you're looking for a black powder I would get something where the breach is accessible. Getting a ball stuck and cleaning can be a nightmare if not. TCA makes nice modern .50 cals. You can get a unfinished Hawken kit for like 350 though. It's my favorite thing to shoot. I think every time I go shooting I shoot more 50 caliber balls anything else.
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