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Unread 11-12-2013, 09:18 PM   #1
Enrico_Pallazzo
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Got yelled a for 4 wheeling.

I have a 1997 Sport Wrangler and I've been jonesing to take it off pavement.

I was visiting a friend who has a place in the Catskills. There is a rough road leading to his place and another road that we turn off to get to his place. We've hiked on the alternate road, and I always noticed that there were tire tracks on it. So, I drove my jeep up hoping/planning to just drive down this other road and come back. It would be my first real off pavement ride, and I had walked/hiked it so I knew it was a loop. Really just a short drive with a turn around at the end. No house. No private property signs. Just another fire road, logging road, or so I thought.

So, it turns out it was there because his neighbor is a hunter and had used the road to set up a hunting stand for deer season. I sort of remembered that, but I didn't realize it was hunting season when I decided to take the turn down it instead of just going straight to my friend's place.

We drove down the road and when we got to this open area, the hunter just started yelling at us. We yelled back, "Sorry." Quickly turned around and drove out. As we were driving away, he was yelling about private property and thinking we could do whatever we wanted, etc.

I felt terrible about possibly scaring off deer, and ruining his day hunting. Other guys said, "there were no signs, how could you know?"

What do you all think? Dick move? or **** him if he can't take a joke! Or something in the middle?

I'd like to try four wheeling on some roads like this, but I don't want to piss people off (especially armed ones in full camo).


Last edited by chris87xj; 11-13-2013 at 10:51 AM.. Reason: Do not circumvent the language filter
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Unread 11-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #2
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Welcome to the forum,.. I think.
A lack of Private Property signs does not indicate Public Property. If you don't see posted signs indicating Public Property, it's a pretty safe bet to assume it's not. Fire trails and logging roads are not public property nor okay/permissible wheelin trails. Although your profile indicates your age to be 73, I'm going to guess it closer to 17 based on the thought processes involved in your post here.
As a landowner, hunter, and a jeeper, I have to side with the hunter you pissed off and who now hates jeepers. Situations like this give offroad enthusiasts a bad name.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 11:54 AM   #3
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Your fault. Its private property, people don't have to tell you that its their land. But if you are on it, you are in the wrong.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:01 PM   #4
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Does your friends neighbor own the land or did he just set up a tree stand there? A simple "private property" sign would have prevented this encounter, although that doesn't make it right that you are driving on roads if you don't know who owns the land.
I wouldn't lose sleep over this, but if you happen to encounter the man again, apologize. Talk to your friend about where you can off road around his property.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:20 PM   #5
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I've got to agree with Chris on all points - the age question included. It's not the landowner's obligation to post signs all over his/her property to make sure everyone knows it is private. If you don't know for a fact that it is public land, then it IS private in my book. Driving across the property of others isn't a guessing game or a good place to make assumptions.

Go talk to the guy the next chance you get and clear up that image you left him with.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:36 PM   #6
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I would go over and apologize and ask him were his land is so you doesn't trespass again. I would wait until he is out of his stand. If here is dicks about it get one of these:

(just kidding)

I live close to federal forest (Mark Twain) so it is common for people to mark their land. Most people are respectful out my way and will honor the signs. There are many roads in my area that are federal forest on one side and private land on the others. We have a local guy that has about 5 acres surrounded by forest. It isn’t uncommon do be driving through what you would think is open forestry round only to come upon a mailbox and somebody’s home. This time of year there are allot of deer hunters coming from the city. We make sure we mark out our way.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:48 PM   #7
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found this:
New York Penal - Article 140 - § 140.05 Trespass
Penal

§ 140.05. Trespass.
A person is guilty of trespass when he knowingly enters or remains
unlawfully in or upon premises.
Trespass is a violation.
Last modified: September 15, 2013
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Unread 11-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
found this:
New York Penal - Article 140 - § 140.05 Trespass
Penal

§ 140.05. Trespass.
A person is guilty of trespass when he knowingly enters or remains
unlawfully in or upon premises.
Trespass is a violation.
Last modified: September 15, 2013
Great reference but I'm gonna add that if its not yours, or posted as being public land, it is owned by someone. Every square inch of this country is accounted for in one way or another. Someone somewhere owns it.

It is best to just stick to what is yours.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:12 PM   #9
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Hunters are a peculiar lot, I know since I am one. For every one of us that practice the tread lightly thing and make sure we know where we are, there are 10 idiots that tear up everything everywhere, shoot at anything, and hunt where they know they can't. Landowners that border public land HATE hunters because of those people. I've met plenty of ranchers that as soon as they see you treat you like you just drug dog poop across the family heirloom rug until they get to know you. They spend hour after hour chasing tresspassers off their land, replacing fence that the tresspassers cut, fixing their roads that they tore up etc. And then they get to do it again next year.

I hunt public land primarily and I HATE many of the people I come across for the same reasons, and I'm only there for the week.

Not saying the OP was doing this, but I'm saying I understand where the other guy was coming from. Beyond that and back on topic if you don't know for a fact you can go where you want to, treat it as if you know you can't.

Power lines/roads etc are in most places NOT public access. They are privately owned land with an easement (usually bought) for the power company (pipeline whatever) that grants that company access to only that section in order to maintain their property. Anyone else using them, its trespassing.

If you talk to the guy 1. while not trespassing and 2. while he's not hunting you'll probably be able to patch things up and maybe even open the door for future access. At the very least most people will garner a little respect as a man if they admit to and try to fix their mistakes before being forced to.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:18 PM   #10
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If you own property, you have a responsibility to put up signs stating so.

I can not count the number of times when I have been exploring state/national land in northern Michigan and not known whether I'm on public property. There have a been few times I've rolled up on someone's house. Marked roads always end up leading to unmarked roads. ALWAYS. I have no interest whatsoever in trespassing on someone else's property. Mark your land.

Anyone who owns land bordering public land with known recreation/hunting and doesn't put up signs is an idiot. This seems to be the OP's case. He has a drive off a logging road and doesn't think to put up a sign???

And if you say, "When in doubt, stay out" or something to that effect you've definitely never been off road. If you had ever been off road, you would know exactly what it's like to wander down logging roads or state/national forest roads that split off all over the place. They are perfectly legal, but never marked.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp View Post
If you own private property, you have a responsibility to put up signs stating so.

I can not count the number of times when I have been exploring state/national land in northern Michigan and either not know whether I'm on public property or do determine I've ended up on someone's land. Marked roads always end up leading to unmarked roads. ALWAYS. I have no interest whatsoever in trespassing on someone else's property. Mark your land.

And if you say, "when in doubt, stay out" or something to that effect you've definitely never been off road.

I don't know the OP situation, but any land owner who owns property bordering public property with known recreation/hunting and doesn't put up signs is an idiot.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp View Post
If you own property, you have a responsibility to put up signs stating so.

I can not count the number of times when I have been exploring state/national land in northern Michigan and either not known whether I'm on public property or do determine I've ended up on someone's land. Marked roads always end up leading to unmarked roads. ALWAYS. I have no interest whatsoever in trespassing on someone else's property. Mark your land.

Any land owner who owns property bordering public land with known recreation/hunting and doesn't put up signs is an idiot. This seems to be the OP's case. He has a drive off a logging road, and doesn't think to put up a sign???

And if you say, "when in doubt, stay out" or something to that effect you've definitely never been off road. If you had ever been off road, you would know exactly what it's like to wander down logging roads that split off all over the place. They are perfectly legal, but never marked.

No one has to put signs on their land. If you don't know who's land it is, STAY OFF OF IT.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
Great reference but I'm gonna add that if its not yours, or posted as being public land, it is owned by someone. Every square inch of this country is accounted for in one way or another. Someone somewhere owns it.

It is best to just stick to what is yours.
Not at all true. I am not advocating people trespass but in many states if there is a "road/easement" that is open you can travel it unless marked otherwise.

Forestry (state and federal) is also public land. There is federal and state forest surrounding much of my area. There are very few gates around. When the do need to close one here or there they take a bulldozer dozer and bush rocks in front of them. Then they push the rocks aside when the trail is back open. These roads are often not marked but open to people to drive to hunt, bike, explore or whatever. The only time you come onto a get for the most part when it comes to personal property.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp View Post
If you own property, you have a responsibility to put up signs stating so.

I can not count the number of times when I have been exploring state/national land in northern Michigan and not known whether I'm on public property. There have a been few times I've rolled up on someone's house. Marked roads always end up leading to unmarked roads. ALWAYS. I have no interest whatsoever in trespassing on someone else's property. Mark your land.

Anyone who owns land bordering public land with known recreation/hunting and doesn't put up signs is an idiot. This seems to be the OP's case. He has a drive off a logging road and doesn't think to put up a sign???

And if you say, "When in doubt, stay out" or something to that effect you've definitely never been off road. If you had ever been off road, you would know exactly what it's like to wander down logging roads or state/national forest roads that split off all over the place. They are perfectly legal, but never marked.
^ Is living in the wrong century. The land was already claimed when Christopher Columbus arrived.
The reality is that if you're going to make use of public land, it's your responsibility to do the homework first and figure out exactly where the public land you intend to utliize lies, and then figure out where you actually are in order to stay on it. Wandering around wherever fancy takes you and defending it with the statement that you started out on public land that morning is not a viable defense. It's not the landowners responsibility to do the work for anyone to enjoy a day of meandering without putting any effort into planning.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinky2252s View Post
No one has to put signs on their land. If you don't know who's land it is, STAY OFF OF IT.
No.

It makes no sense to buy land smack in the middle of national forest, and then ***** when someone ends up on it because you didn't put up a sign.

You bought the land, you bought the responsibility that comes with it.
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