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Unread 10-17-2013, 10:15 AM   #31
holliewood61
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Its easy enough to do. Make the amount given enough to be assistance not enough to be support say 50 bucks a month per person in the house hold. A family of 4 would get 200 bucks a month. we have a family of 3 and spend 200 every 2 weeks in groceries therefore if we were on the system we would still have to work. There is work out there you just have to do it. It isn't fun it isn't how I want to spend 8 hrs a day but hey that's why they have to pay me to be there. If it was fun there would be a giant mouse standing out front and I would have to pay to be there.

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Unread 10-17-2013, 10:33 AM   #32
Ironhead
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Originally Posted by firefighter315 View Post
Years if your hair is long enough. If they decide to try and defeat that test and show up fully shaved and are not either an Olympic caliber swimmer or keep people in a pit and want you to put the lotion in the basket, then I'd take that as an automatic admission of guilt.
i dont think length has anything to do with it, the part they test is the follicle. if you think you are going to beat the system by shaving, they will find a hair

the real problem is cost, hair tests are roughly 3x the cost of piss tests and the only state that has shown them to be effective did so by people simply not showing up due to the fact they knew they would fail. if everyone was tested it would cost far too much money, let alone if there were random or multiple tests
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Unread 10-17-2013, 11:18 AM   #33
firefighter315
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Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
the real problem is cost, hair tests are roughly 3x the cost of piss tests and the only state that has shown them to be effective did so by people simply not showing up due to the fact they knew they would fail. if everyone was tested it would cost far too much money, let alone if there were random or multiple tests
I had no intent to suggest that drug testing hair samples for everyone was a viable answer. Simply offering another testing option to the list. An absolute source for testing that would extend the use range exponentially is to test vitreous, but that causes a problem in itself as we only do that post-mortem. There are actually two types of testing for hair. Testing the follicle can cover 30 to 90 days, but collection of multiple hair shafts can cover a much longer period of time. If one shaves their head, body hair can be used and actually may cover an even longer period of time due to a slower growth rate. We used to collect hair samples for drug testing and would cut small samples to accumulate around 100 individual shafts of hair, so the follicle wasn't even involved in those.

I don't think any testing beyond the average urine and blood screens would be necessary. Those who are addicts are going to use no matter what and the random factor makes it difficult to overcome the testing. I've been involved in drug testing in one form or the other off and on for 15 years as a RN in several venues, and I have yet to see anyone successfully use any of the many reported cleaning or masking agents. Many times, we would either detect dilution of the sample or a metabolite of the agent itself.

I spent several years working for the Dept. of Labor providing medical care for the Job Corps program, and believe me, many of those kids would try anything to make a sample come up clean. We used to have boxes and boxes of confiscated Goldenseal, Flax seed oil, Acai, etc. None of them worked. Those that tried to dilute their urine would have values so out of whack it would look like they were in renal failure.
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Unread 10-17-2013, 12:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by WhiteOut
I'd rather see the government spend $50 million in testing and surveillance to save $25 million if it keeps the leaches and abusers off the system. You can also:
- Slash the entitlement ammount so it does make sense to go get that $10/hr job.
- Not increase the entitlement if you have more kids while on the program.
- If you leave the program, minimum 18 month waiting period to get back on.
- Random financial audits, include registered vehicles and property as well as bank accounts and EBT use history. Entry into the program results in a flagged credit file for all people living at the home, alerts when credit is sought.
- Start charging and sending to prison retailers who aid in abuse of the system. Tack on a consequence of revoking their business lic as well. Random audits/ secret shops for this.
Really? You'd rather pay more money to see more people in a worse position? I understand you don't like the leaching, but at some point one is just being spiteful.

I'm with you on the first and last two points but I am wondering why you would propose a year-and-a-half waiting period to get services back after terminating them? If someone get's on their feet but loses their job/home/relationship/whatever, they're screwed for 18 months?
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Unread 10-17-2013, 12:35 PM   #35
MountainMan864
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A guy I work with pays a woman $200 cash a month for $400 worth of food stamps every month.
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Unread 10-17-2013, 12:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter315
I've been involved in drug testing in one form or the other off and on for 15 years as a RN in several venues, and I have yet to see anyone successfully use any of the many reported cleaning or masking agents. Many times, we would either detect dilution of the sample or a metabolite of the agent itself. I spent several years working for the Dept. of Labor providing medical care for the Job Corps program, and believe me, many of those kids would try anything to make a sample come up clean. We used to have boxes and boxes of confiscated Goldenseal, Flax seed oil, Acai, etc. None of them worked. Those that tried to dilute their urine would have values so out of whack it would look like they were in renal failure.
Well of course you haven't seen anyone successfully use a cleaning or masking agent. Sort of a no brainer, right? There are products that work for some people, however. I'm not surprised the boxes of confiscated flax seed oil or acai didn't work; I've never heard of Goldenseal. Some people, for example, might have success with a cleaning or masking agent a week or two after ceasing to use marijuana, where the typical timeline would require 30 days. Some people might also have success a day or two after using cocaine where typically they would need a day or two more.

Maybe this isn't relevant, however, because if people are being regularly, randomly drug tested and can afford the more expensive and effective cleaning/masking agents, they might not be eligible for services in the first place.
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Unread 10-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #37
MountainMan864
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My buddy cleared his test of THC overnight just by drinking lots of water and sweating. Did fail for meth and MDMA though lol.
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Unread 10-18-2013, 05:16 AM   #38
91YJ4X4
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Originally Posted by MountainMan864
My buddy cleared his test of THC overnight just by drinking lots of water and sweating. Did fail for meth and MDMA though lol.
Must have just been lucky. (Minus the meth) THC is in your blood and has nothing to do with sweat glands or water.
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Unread 10-19-2013, 12:28 AM   #39
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Oddly enough most testing sites are well aware of all the tricks from the 70s. You may not test positive for thc in your urine but you also test negative for a BUNCH of things that should be there. And then you make the list. Its the 'probably going back to jail in a few months' list.
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Unread 10-19-2013, 05:44 AM   #40
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I know we are way off topic but here is a different method: http://www.detoxforless.com/urine-te...ake-penis.aspx
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Unread 10-24-2013, 02:13 PM   #41
nwiTJdave
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http://www.ksla.com/story/23752157/m...hoppers-online

"Some shoppers have reportedly made restitution already, and their photos will not be displayed."

I am guessing those who have made restitution only took a minor amount as opposed to three or four shopping carts full of groceries? If they did take a lot of food, do they really need an EBT card? I don't mean to sound ignorant as people with EBT can still save money but I am assuming they walked out with $500+ in groceries. IF someone can save that amount of money, should their EBT benefits be reduced? I never want to see someone go without, but many of us make sacrifices so we can go without a few things to have other items/necessities.
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