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Unread 02-20-2014, 01:35 AM   #1
hallc
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Drum and shoe labor help????

i am having an issue with a mechanic whom is trying to charge me 12 hrs of labor to do my drums and shoes all around. i provided all the parts and even pulled all the old drums and shoes off for him. needless to say he is trying to rip me off on several things he says he has done so i may have to take him to court. so what i am asking for help for is if anyone can guide me to a website that will show what is an actual amount of time it should take to do a brake job of my 1964/65 willys jeep j200.

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Unread 02-20-2014, 11:11 AM   #2
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Unread 02-20-2014, 11:41 AM   #3
Balvar24
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How many hours did it take him?

Even if it only took him one hour, it'd probably still be cheaper just to pay him.
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Unread 02-20-2014, 01:36 PM   #4
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I can usually knock out drums in .75 hr per wheel. That being said, I have had some so far rutted into the drum, that even by backing them off, they still hang! Once you get in, if the adjuster or any springs have let go, it usually takes out everything. Not hard to spend a couple hours per wheel!!

You did say you pre pulled all the drums, so ask him where the time is coming from?
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Unread 02-20-2014, 01:56 PM   #5
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Well you did one thing wrong and that was to remove the drums and shoes on all wheels at the same time.
Now he has to guess how it all goes back toghether.

But that should not take 12 hours to find out.
On drums always work on one side at a time and use the other as a reference because you will get confused sometimes.
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Unread 02-20-2014, 01:56 PM   #6
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Why are you going through this trouble? Are you going to court or something? Tell him to **** off. That's a ridiculous time allotment.

Sounds like you are not standing up for yourself, and he's taking advantage of it. You don't need documentation on how long it takes to do brakes on a 65 Willys (and you're not going to find it), it's just a stupid time. Period.

How much is he charging per hour?

Nobody should own an old vehicle unless they're filthy rich or willing to do their own work.
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Unread 02-20-2014, 03:15 PM   #7
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Sometimes I take my own lobster to Red Lobster and ask them to cook it for me.
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Unread 02-20-2014, 03:46 PM   #8
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That's why I have 12 hidden cameras throughout my vehicle. I can do time lapse and see if the guy is taking breaks and eating cheeseburger or working on the brakes. You picked a shop run by mafia, so you pay 4 hours labor + 8 hours to cover the "surcharge" to make sure nobody steals your Willys during the job.

The job should take about 6 hours if being generous, but that's on a newer Jeep. Pay him half and he can go to small claims and make his case; sounds all backwards to me. What is he going to do - seize your vehicle or hold the keys? The cops will tell him to release your Jeep and sort it in court. My cousin Slava will visit the guy and tell him to take half and be happy: end of story.
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Unread 02-20-2014, 04:50 PM   #9
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What did the estimate say when you signed the work order? Also, he has every right to charge you a surcharge since you supplied parts, so long as he told you before hand. Going by actual time taken to do the job is also pointless since you're most likely paying book.

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Unread 02-20-2014, 11:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangFoo View Post
That's why I have 12 hidden cameras throughout my vehicle. I can do time lapse and see if the guy is taking breaks and eating cheeseburger or working on the brakes. You picked a shop run by mafia, so you pay 4 hours labor + 8 hours to cover the "surcharge" to make sure nobody steals your Willys during the job.

The job should take about 6 hours if being generous, but that's on a newer Jeep. Pay him half and he can go to small claims and make his case; sounds all backwards to me. What is he going to do - seize your vehicle or hold the keys? The cops will tell him to release your Jeep and sort it in court. My cousin Slava will visit the guy and tell him to take half and be happy: end of story.
6 hours? Half hour a wheel tops..
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Unread 02-22-2014, 01:09 AM   #11
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My current labor estimate book only goes back to '74 but a 64/65 should be the same or close. For a J20 with 4 wheel drums a complete brake job (remove/replace & overhaul) shows 5.2 labor. Complete brake job includes removal of all components, overhaul all wheel cylinders, replace shoes and hardware, repack wheel bearings and install all components. Also included is necessary adjustments and bleeding the system. This is for all 4 wheels/brakes, lock out hubs & guts, full floating rear axle considered.

The labor for a complete brake job without overhaul is 4.6 labor. This is the same as above except replacing wheel cylinders instead of overhaul. I can't see anybody charging near that much for a brake job, what else is he charging for? I can understand needing a little extra time over the book for something that old if he was dealing with rusty, broken, modified or incomplete parts/hardware etc.
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Unread 02-22-2014, 03:17 AM   #12
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Let's look at this from the mechanic's point of view. A customer brings in a 50 year old Jeep that the mechanic has most certainly never worked on before, or likely even anything similar or from that time period. To do brake drums, standard procedure is one side at a time, because you need the other side for reference. So by the customer having already "saved time" by removing all the parts, now the mechanic has no reference point to work from, and on top of that does not get to even do the disassembly to reference from memory. The mechanic has to start from scratch with no reference, and has no access to the old parts to even make sure the new parts are correct. In the event that any parts are wrong (which is nearly certain when you're trying to get parts on a vehicle this old), the mechanic also knows he's going to have to make a lot of calls before he finds a source for the right parts (which can again take a few tries and wrong parts).

It's going to take substantial time to find parts, or any useful information about the doing a brake job like this if he hits any snags. Had he been able to tear down the old parts, it would only take a few minutes to learn how it all goes back together. Any additional time that the mechanic now has to spend researching the job and figuring out if the parts are right, and if so how they fit together, is all time wasted not working on other standard, by-the-book paying jobs. None of this even broaches the amount of rust that likely exists in a 50 year old off-road vehicle, which is also likely to contribute hours of complication.

So, when a customer brings in a project like this one with extremely high potential to be a time wasting cluster****, if the mechanic isn't straight up billing 12 hours to begin with, he's losing money. Especially when there's a lot of standard jobs that charge 2-3 hours, but the mechanic can do them in 1 hour or less. He's just ensuring that it will either be somewhat worth his time and effort, or you'll just go somewhere else so he doesn't have to deal with it.
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Unread 02-22-2014, 06:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the88thpianoman View Post
Let's look at this from the mechanic's point of view. A customer brings in a 50 year old Jeep that the mechanic has most certainly never worked on before, or likely even anything similar or from that time period. To do brake drums, standard procedure is one side at a time, because you need the other side for reference. So by the customer having already "saved time" by removing all the parts, now the mechanic has no reference point to work from, and on top of that does not get to even do the disassembly to reference from memory. The mechanic has to start from scratch with no reference, and has no access to the old parts to even make sure the new parts are correct. In the event that any parts are wrong (which is nearly certain when you're trying to get parts on a vehicle this old), the mechanic also knows he's going to have to make a lot of calls before he finds a source for the right parts (which can again take a few tries and wrong parts).

It's going to take substantial time to find parts, or any useful information about the doing a brake job like this if he hits any snags. Had he been able to tear down the old parts, it would only take a few minutes to learn how it all goes back together. Any additional time that the mechanic now has to spend researching the job and figuring out if the parts are right, and if so how they fit together, is all time wasted not working on other standard, by-the-book paying jobs. None of this even broaches the amount of rust that likely exists in a 50 year old off-road vehicle, which is also likely to contribute hours of complication.

So, when a customer brings in a project like this one with extremely high potential to be a time wasting cluster****, if the mechanic isn't straight up billing 12 hours to begin with, he's losing money. Especially when there's a lot of standard jobs that charge 2-3 hours, but the mechanic can do them in 1 hour or less. He's just ensuring that it will either be somewhat worth his time and effort, or you'll just go somewhere else so he doesn't have to deal with it.
He's a god damned idiot if it takes him 12 hours to figure out how to put drum brakes back together. Customers shouldn't have to pay for the mental handicap of a particular mechanic.

The idea of leaving one side together so you can figure out the other is convenience, not a necessity by any means.
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Unread 02-22-2014, 12:38 PM   #14
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Unread 02-25-2014, 12:20 AM   #15
hallc
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Originally Posted by jnicewan View Post
My current labor estimate book only goes back to '74 but a 64/65 should be the same or close. For a J20 with 4 wheel drums a complete brake job (remove/replace & overhaul) shows 5.2 labor. Complete brake job includes removal of all components, overhaul all wheel cylinders, replace shoes and hardware, repack wheel bearings and install all components. Also included is necessary adjustments and bleeding the system. This is for all 4 wheels/brakes, lock out hubs & guts, full floating rear axle considered.

The labor for a complete brake job without overhaul is 4.6 labor. This is the same as above except replacing wheel cylinders instead of overhaul. I can't see anybody charging near that much for a brake job, what else is he charging for? I can understand needing a little extra time over the book for something that old if he was dealing with rusty, broken, modified or incomplete parts/hardware etc.
he is trying to charge me 3hrs for measuring driveshaft for exact fit. lol it takes 10 seconds to run a tape measure from one end to the other. and i actually went and measured it not him so that i could have one custom made because i could not find one at the jeep junk yard that would fit. another 2hrs for measuring the radiator width, whichj once again i did so that i could get one at th ejeep junkyard which i did. this guys jsut an idiot and a rip off

Last edited by hallc; 02-25-2014 at 12:31 AM..
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