[CrzyWhtBy]

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ and just as important it is a time to give which is godly...thus bringing you closer to Christ. It is a time of year to think of someone other than yourself. It seems God will eventually be removed from all things main stream as it makes the time of year much more marketable and easily accepted by the masses. America is a country that was founded as a nation under God; those who choose to live here should adhere to those words. You have the choice of religious freedom in this country or no religion at all and that is fine. Please don't ask that I change my believes or the way I express a holiday, in a country founded under God to apease your believes. You do not have to believe in my God; however you should not be offended by my belief or celebration.

Xmas does offend me

[RedJeepXJ]

Originally Posted by CrzyWhtBy

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ and just as important it is a time to give which is godly...thus bringing you closer to Christ. It is a time of year to think of someone other than yourself. It seems God will eventually be removed from all things main stream as it makes the time of year much more marketable and easily accepted by the masses. America is a country that was founded as a nation under God; those who choose to live here should adhere to those words. You have the choice of religious freedom in this country or no religion at all and that is fine. Please don't ask that I change my believes or the way I express a holiday, in a country founded under God to apease your believes. You do not have to believe in my God; however you should not be offended by my belief or celebration.

Xmas does offend me

no no no

it was founded by people looking for freedom of religion

the "under god" in the pledge was added in the 1950's along with the "in god we trust"

there is a reason why the constitution and such mentions nothing about a specific god.

what if everyone said happy hanakuh to you, or said praise allah, how long do you think it would take before you got offended even if they only meant good by it

[PM Thor]

Being a Xavier fan, everyone I know uses Xmas in typing, because for my group of friends, it has a double meaning.

So Merry Xmas everyone!

[Jerry Bransford]

I don't like the use of X-mas to satisfy those who are simply offended way too easily. Do Christians get offended by the use of sayings like Happy Hanuka and are there any other religion's special times of the year that we can't say for fear of offending other religions? This "being offended" thing is new and is just being blown out of proportion by liberals. If we were to be in Iran, we would not be offended by their Islamic holidays, we would just realize that country is primarily Islamic so that is their thing. Why should I be offended by that if I were to visit Iran or if I were to happen to live there as a Christian? I wouldn't be offended because I simply happen to have a lick of common sense.

We are so friggin' worried about being politically correct that we are afraid of too much, too often, and too easily. And all the political correctness all seems to center around anti-Christianity. If it's pro-Christmas, the schools and liberal politicians are against it. But if it's pro-Islamic, pro-Buddist, pro-atheism, pro-Hindu, or pro-anything else but Christmas, it's fine by our liberals or school administrators to be celebrated or discussed in our public schools. Here in San Diego it's gone from Christmas Celebrations to Happy Holidays to Winter Holidays now. And I doubt any of the other faiths were ever truly offended by seeing references to Christmas, they were probably "told" to be offended by the liberals.

[CrzyWhtBy]

Originally Posted by Scs748

no no no

it was founded by people looking for freedom of religion

the "under god" in the pledge was added in the 1950's along with the "in god we trust"

there is a reason why the constitution and such mentions nothing about a specific god.

what if everyone said happy hanakuh to you, or said praise allah, how long do you think it would take before you got offended even if they only meant good by it

Thanks for the clarification and just a question as to why they chose to single out God as opossed to buddah or whom ever? What religion were they escaping from? I know religion is not the only reason for this great country...but christianity is a reason this country is so great!

And if everyone said happy hanakuh or praise allah to me I would simply reply Merry Christmas and go about my merry little way. I would not tell them they are wrong and I certainly would not try to change the traditions of their country or influence laws, in order to make myself feel more comfortable. When in Rome do as the Romans and when in America cry about it until everyone believes you are right.

[PJL]

^ The only reference to god in our founding documents, irrespective of the founders' personal beliefs, is the mentioning of the "creator" in the Declaration of Independence, which does not specifically refer to the Judeo-Christian construct of "God" (the "creator" reference is actually much more of a philosophical/deist construct), and then referring to 1787 as "the year of our Lord," which was, in that day, the same thing as saying "1787 AD." The intention of the founders, definitively, was not to create a Christian theocracy. This whole "under God" thing was added later for sectarian purposes, to secure greater Christian influence in government.

But this point is kind of irrelevant. People get offended over "x-mas" because they're ignorant of Greek. Most people who using it aren't trying to take Christ out of Christmas or whatever nonsense is fed to people by Bill O'Reilly. There is no "war on Christmas." No one is burning your house to the ground because you choose to hang gaudy lights and have a Christmas tree. And I use "happy holidays" out of habit. I have a lot of friends and co-workers who aren't Christian. "Happy holidays" is an all-inclusive statement that takes into consideration the fact that not everyone who lives in the US is a Christian who celebrates Christmas.

[STUFF]

Originally Posted by johnnyepic

It's not supposed to be offensive or take Christ out of Christmas...Xmas is an abbreviation...a symbol for Christ looks like an X with a P coming out of the top of it.



Stop getting your panties all in a bundle and calm down. The "war on Christmas" is ridiculous.

You're right! There are greater issues to be concerned with! There is a war on anything pertaining to GOD ,christianity, Israel and OUR FREEDOM.I don't know anything about the symbol you show(have never seen it before),but I don't believe that it has anything to do w/abbreviating christmas.Not in THIS country. Ultimately it's the liberal,fags & hippie/yuppie crowd that want to censor anything and anyone that speak out against the immorality in this world.Think about it,nobody wants to think that there is a penalty to pay for wrong living;that's why other religions are 'ok'.If you study history you'll find how fast our society has declined since people have been finding 'christ' so offensive. AND these are the same people who are slowly ripping our rights away,and trying to take our guns(when this happens;it's over. study history!)Just to clarify,I'm not too impressed w/ so-called conservatives either! I am first and foremost an AMERICAN!! P.S.There is not much more offensive than 2 guys sucking each-other's face,and being told that I 'must' accept it.

[STUFF]

Originally Posted by CrzyWhtBy

Thanks for the clarification and just a question as to why they chose to single out God as opossed to buddah or whom ever? What religion were they escaping from? I know religion is not the only reason for this great country...but christianity is a reason this country is so great!

And if everyone said happy hanakuh or praise allah to me I would simply reply Merry Christmas and go about my merry little way. I would not tell them they are wrong and I certainly would not try to change the traditions of their country or influence laws, in order to make myself feel more comfortable. When in Rome do as the Romans and when in America cry about it until everyone believes you are right.

Best I can tell, they were running away from the roman-catholic bulls*** Study some history, you'll find how people were oppressed/suppressed by the church;even killed.Religion has killed more people than any other thing in the world.In the bible Christ wasn't very big on the church that was.Too much hypocrisy & corruption.Ther is still ONLY one name under heaven by which men must be saved(other religions say we can do it ourselves),even after all these centuries.I personally don't like the direction churches have gone.

[Grimscale]

Man, you people kill me.

I can't believe you are actually complaining about "removing Christ from Christmas" when the whole concept of "Christmas" is a total rip-off of ancient Pagan celebrations!
In olden times, the Church decided that the best way to "convert the heathens" was to incorporate their Holidays into Christianity as a way of saying "yes, we have the same celebrations you do...our religion is just like yours". if people don't have to give up their celebrations, it's easier to get them to profess belief in a different deity.
Once they are firmly indoctrinated into Christianity, then it would be easier to make subtle changes to the holiday celebrations to remove the "unwanted" portions.

I recommend reading the following website:
http://www.thercg.org/books/ttooc.html


Now, unfortunately, I expect many flames from the more rabid religious folk here. Some just cannot seem to handle anything that might cast doubt on their "reality".
Specifically, I direct this to STUFF, with his vicious rantings against anyone that does not conform to his idea of how to live correctly.

"Ultimately it's the liberal,fags & hippie/yuppie crowd that want to censor anything and anyone that speak out against the immorality in this world."

Last time I checked...MANY other religions preached against immorality. in fact, even atheists are know to follow a code of rules that govern their behavior toward other people. "Morality" is not exclusive to Christianity, nor was it even STARTED by Christianity. Long before "Christ" appeared, Wiccans believed "an it harm none, do as you will".

"AND these are the same people who are slowly ripping our rights away,and trying to take our guns"

Hmm...last time I checked, our rights were being removed by a REPUBLICAN. You know..the ones that are usually trying to force everyone to believe in their God? The ones that try to limit or remove Freedom of Speech, Freedom from Religion (which, ironically, includes THEIRS), the Right to Due Process, the Right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure, etc. It's only a matter of time before they realize that the "common man" is too dangerous with a firearm and try to get possession restricted to the "ruling elite".



Then there is CrzyWhtBy, who even manages to contradict himself.

"America is a country that was founded as a nation under God; those who choose to live here should adhere to those words."

Yet in the next sentence he says,

"You have the choice of religious freedom in this country or no religion at all and that is fine."

Well, which is it? Are we SUPPOSED to believe in YOUR religion or are we allowed to decide for ourselves what religion to believe in?

"Please don't ask that I change my believes or the way I express a holiday, in a country founded under God to apease your believes"

Yet you are implying that everyone else must change their beliefs just so as to not offend YOU? Who died to make YOU so important?

"But taking away the identity of any of them and melding them all into one holiday, I won't do."

Unless you wait to hear what holiday greeting everyone you meet uses, how will you know to say "Merry Christmas", "Happy Channuka", or "Happy yuletide"? Saying "Happy Holidays" is a nice way of wishing someone a pleasant holiday without making the mistake of questioning their beliefs.


Normally I have no problem saying "Merry Christmas". But lately, the rabid "religious reich" have been doing their best to force their religion on everyone else. That is wrong. There is no one "right" religion, or belief. Each person must make their own decision as to the proper belief/non-belief that suits them best.


Oh, and I usually use x-mas online as it is a lot quicker to type than christmas, and I haven't had anyone complain yet.


So to all, I bid you a VERY Merry Christmas, Happy Channuka, Happy yuletide, Joyous Midwinter Festival, and Happy Holiday. May the Goddess bless each of you with health and bounty in the coming year.

Blessed Be

[CrzyWhtBy]

The fact that my belief in Christ is offensive is the point, I should be able to say Merry Christmas with out regard. I feel that if someone felt as strongly about their believes as I they would certainly make it a point to offer there own unique greeting. I don't feel you have to belive in God to live in America, my point is that you should not force a certain sect to change their traditions to apease you. I do believe most churches use religion as a means to control and like any business they are inheriantly corrupt. I belive religion to be a personal relationship between you and your God. If you don't believe there is a greater power than yourself that is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Don't tell me I am wrong and we can exsit in perfect harmony as long as you hold true to the same social values deemed acceptable by society. There are rituals in the bible that I certainly do not believe are practical or necessary to live a good life or please my God. Taking Christ out of Christmas is exactly that...there is no Christmas with out Christ. The holiday should not be recognized in your eyes. Make up your own reson to gather with family and friends this time of year... Insulting me for not believing that people use the x as an abreviation for Christ is very narrow minded. I do not tell you that you are wrong for not believing in God...Alowing the X to become the norm will in time become the rule. History my friend has a funny way of becoming forgotten and rewritten. In a hunderd years people will probably be sceptical that believing the holocaust ever took place will take debate. So Merry Christmas and I will pray for you.

[AlTheKillerr]

Merry Xmas!!

[PJL]

Merry Xmas and Happy Holidays to you, Hal!

[AlTheKillerr]

thankyou! happy new years to you!

[provinT13]

no one says Xmas, it just seems to be an abbrivation of what people write on their christmas holiday storage boxes, and what they type online in emails and forums. Besides isn't christmas a pagan holiday?

[STUFF]

Dude,I don't mean to be vicious .And you're right,christianity didn't invent 'morality'.But it's the best model I've found(by the book,not by the human examples we so often see),and NO I'm not pushing anything particular.As far as our freedom goes,I don't know if you noticed that I said I'm not real big on 'conservitives' either(which are generally pro-gun,but yes,they do step on all our other rights as mentioned).Un-bridled government is ALWAYS dangerous(again,study history)!Like I said,I,m AMERICAN-not republican or democrat.Anyway,hope you(and everyone)had a good christmas and a safe newyear