Cassius Clay - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

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post #16 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 03:40 PM
stratostix
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The US now has a professional military. The members of the military voluntarily signed up. That is a career choice. The job description is very clear. I don't like to see Americans go off to war but that is the job.
Americans were drafted during the Vietnam war. Totally different situation. Ali along with many others disagreed with this war. He stood up for for what he believed in. History proved him right along with the court of justice. Because the US govt tells u to do this or do that doesn't make it right. Blindly following the govt's orders is not what being American is about.

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post #17 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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The US now has a professional military. The troops voluntarily signed up. That is a career choice. The job description is very clear.
I understand that but what is your point? Some of those troops that made the career choice still do not agree with being where we are.

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post #18 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 04:11 PM
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I accidentally hit reply without finishing my post. But what im trying to say is that when u sign up for the military, u make a conscious decision to follow all US govt orders whether u agree with it or not. That's part of ur oath. That's not an oath that the avg American that was drafted back then took. There was no choice. It was war or jail. Do u see the point I'm trying to make here?

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If they're gonna bend you over for that much, I'd definitely pay extra for the lube!!
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post #19 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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I see your point and understand the difference.

Living in this country I feel that it is your duty to serve if called upon. He did not.

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post #20 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 04:48 PM
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I see your point and understand the difference.

Living in this country I feel that it is your duty to serve if called upon. He did not.
I think that's where u n I have different opinions. I absolutely agree with u as far as fighting to defend this country if needed. What I'm trying to say is that it's ur duty as an American to question ur govt. Ali questioned it concerning this war and history proved him right. It's one thing to defend ur country from an attack. It's another to be sent to be the aggressor.

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If they're gonna bend you over for that much, I'd definitely pay extra for the lube!!
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/9...hread-1234264/
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post #21 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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I somewhat agree. I was not alive for the Vietnam era so I have limited knowledge of the conflict. I have taken multiple history lessons in high school as well as college. I cannot say I agree with the actions of the US government during that time as well as current ongoings. But if called I would honor my country with or without question.

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post #22 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 05:15 PM
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I can absolutely respect that. I was born and grew up in Europe with a muslim father and Christian mother. I relocated to this US in my teenage yrs to be closer to the rest of my family who were all American for decades. I'm proud to be American but because of my background I try to look at those issues without nationalistic, racial or religious bias. It's much easier for me considering my history than it is for most and I understand that. Anyways, I enjoyed the conversation.

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If they're gonna bend you over for that much, I'd definitely pay extra for the lube!!
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/9...hread-1234264/
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post #23 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 05:59 PM
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Living in this country I feel that it is your duty to serve if called upon.
That's easy to say when there is no draft and no Viet Nam in progress.

When a bunch of old men in DC are sending thousands of young men halfway around the world to fight and die in a place that has no strategic value for the US and for a people that don't want us there.... that's a different story. Not much different than Iraq/Afganistan but all of those guys volunteered.

Fight for the security of the US, anytime. Fight so some politicians can play world street cop with the US armed forces...I don't think so.

As far as Cassius/Mohammed, whatever you want to call him, I watched nearly all of his fights. Incredible is all you can say. Hero, I don't see it but what the @@@@. Heros are in the eye of the beholder.

I was in high school and college in the Viet Nam days; it wasn't pretty. 57,000 men died, some relatives and some friends/classmates, about 10X the number in the MidEast so far, and for what? So we could run out of Saigon with our tails between our legs after 8 or so years because LBJ and others tied our hands with the rules of engagement. What a tragedy. I don't like what Clay/Ali did but at least he didn't pull a Hanoi Jane Fonda trick.

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post #24 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Willys2TJ View Post
That's easy to say when there is no draft and no Viet Nam in progress.

When a bunch of old men in DC are sending thousands of young men halfway around the world to fight and die in a place that has no strategic value for the US and for a people that don't want us there.... that's a different story. Not much different than Iraq/Afganistan but all of those guys volunteered.

Fight for the security of the US, anytime. Fight so some politicians can play world street cop with the US armed forces...I don't think so.

As far as Cassius/Mohammed, whatever you want to call him, I watched nearly all of his fights. Incredible is all you can say. Hero, I don't see it but what the @@@@. Heros are in the eye of the beholder.

I was in high school and college in the Viet Nam days; it wasn't pretty. 57,000 men died, some relatives and some friends/classmates, about 10X the number in the MidEast so far, and for what? So we could run out of Saigon with our tails between our legs after 8 or so years because LBJ and others tied our hands with the rules of engagement. What a tragedy. I don't like what Clay/Ali did but at least he didn't pull a Hanoi Jane Fonda trick.
I know of a few people who left college at that time (from my understanding they were exempt from the draft) to take up arms and serve their country. I have the utmost respect and admiration for them. In my eyes they are truly heroes.

As far as Cassius, don't get me wrong. He had tremendous talent.

As far as Hanoi Jane, don't get me wrong. I can't stand to look at her now.

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post #25 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 06:26 PM
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His name is Clay. Very talented man, the islam crap I don't acknowledge or believe to be legit. I also refuse to use the term afro-american. Its demeaning in all respects. American is good enough, otherwise black. No matter where we come from, once here we are AMERICAN! Including Mr. Clay.

it is what it is except when its something else
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post #26 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 06:31 PM
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the islam crap I don't acknowledge or believe to be legit.
What?

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post #27 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tdog02 View Post
His name is Clay. Very talented man, the islam crap I don't acknowledge or believe to be legit.
So sad...

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If they're gonna bend you over for that much, I'd definitely pay extra for the lube!!
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/9...hread-1234264/
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post #28 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 08:56 PM
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Holy crap from boxer to religious war; a day in the life of GD.
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post #29 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 09:04 PM
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Would not have occurred if OP hadn't put the word "God" in his post. Everything is about God, God, God. GOD BLESS AMERICA You actually sound like a bigot, OP. Lots of people deny God. I deny God. I guess that wipes away all of my achievements in life. Oh, man!
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post #30 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 09:45 PM
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Uh oh.
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