[Florida_Model]

Anybody else tired of filling out tax paperwork or paying for someone to do it for them? anybody tired of gas prices soaring thru the roof? anybody actually want their full paycheck and not the grossly overstepped margin of 22-40% and more STOLEN by the gov't? Tell me your thoughts, and ill tell you a solution. Who has heard about the FairTax?

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

Anybody else tired of filling out tax paperwork or paying for someone to do it for them? anybody tired of gas prices soaring thru the roof? anybody actually want their full paycheck and not the grossly overstepped margin of 22-40% and more STOLEN by the gov't? Tell me your thoughts, and ill tell you a solution. Who has heard about the FairTax?

Why does that sound familiar?

Anybody else tired of going to the store? anybody tired of household goods prices soaring thru the roof? anybody actually want more bang for their buck? Do you want your money back? Tell me your thoughts, and ill tell you a solution. Who has heard about AmWay?

[War Eagle]

I don't like paying taxes but I think we get a pretty decent return for what they take. I'd love to get rid of pork and corrupt politicians but it can't be done. The Fair Tax plan is a terrible idea. I've seen what happens when your budget depends on sales tax.

[sparkchaser]

My biggest criticism of the Fair tax is the assumption that prices would be globally lowered x% which just happens to coincide with the tax rate. I don't buy that. Sure prices might drop a bit but not enough to make the amount we used to pay versus the amount we now pay a wash.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

Why does that sound familiar?

Anybody else tired of going to the store? anybody tired of household goods prices soaring thru the roof? anybody actually want more bang for their buck? Do you want your money back? Tell me your thoughts, and ill tell you a solution. Who has heard about AmWay?

pfft... AmWay is sooooo 1900's. It's all Quixtar now baby!

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

My biggest criticism of the Fair tax is the assumption that prices would be globally lowered x% which just happens to coincide with the tax rate. I don't buy that. Sure prices might drop a bit but not enough to make the amount we used to pay versus the amount we now pay a wash.

But even if it's a wash, think of all the new income tax generated because EVERYONE is taxed. You can't get away from it by generating your money under the table, or via other illegal activities. Just think of all the illegal aliens and other criminals that would now be contributing at least a little instead of being total leeches off the system

[Florida_Model]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I don't like paying taxes but I think we get a pretty decent return for what they take. I'd love to get rid of pork and corrupt politicians but it can't be done. The Fair Tax plan is a terrible idea. I've seen what happens when your budget depends on sales tax.

have you even read the actual bill? do you even really know what its about? How is it a terrible idea and HOW have you seen a consumption tax in practice? its never been done on the same level EVER. thats just an ignorant statement...

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

My biggest criticism of the Fair tax is the assumption that prices would be globally lowered x% which just happens to coincide with the tax rate. I don't buy that. Sure prices might drop a bit but not enough to make the amount we used to pay versus the amount we now pay a wash.

The "assumption" that the prices would lower globally? Do you realize how many studies by both partisan and bi-partisan think tanks have been done and have confirmed this effect? If you eliminate The Corporate Tax rate, which is the second highest in the world, next to Japan, You eliminate a LARGE portion of the cost of products being produced in the United States. what happens when a company doesnt have to "collect" those taxes? and yes i said collect and not pay, b/c they arent paying them, they just transfer the cost to the consumer. The answer is the price goes down. and what happens when there is a Tax Free Haven for all businesses to grow and do business, i.e. the good ole US of A? Businesses flock to that haven, and in order to compete, the in turn would also have to drop there prices, and not to mention if items are tax free in the united states to produce, how is that not advantageous to our economy when imports are taxed and tariffed? we are at an EXTREME advantage, esp when the cost of our Exports is gonna be lower b/c the tax rate in other countries is lower than our sales tax.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

have you even read the actual bill? do you even really know what its about? How is it a terrible idea and HOW have you seen a consumption tax in practice? its never been done on the same level EVER. thats just an ignorant statement...

Yes I have read the bill. I've seen a little thing called "Alabama's Educational System" which is funded through sales tax. I don't want to see that same model try to fund our entire government. Furthermore, people can only buy so much "stuff." No matter how rich you are you can only own so much. Thinking that money is just going to keep rolling in off your sales tax or that prices are going to drop because corporations are now saving a chunk of money is pie-in-the-sky thinking.

I didn't make an ignorant statement, I just didn't agree with you. Sorry, killer.

[Florida_Model]

For Example:

The current cost of a Coat is 100 dollars. thats including all the sales, corporate, payroll, etc. taxes. that adds up to about 22-24% of the 100 dollars of the cost of that coat. all taxes passed on to the consumer. if you remove those and issue a consumption tax like the FairTax, the cost of those goods will drop by nature of free market competition that percentage to say 77 dollars. (23% for an even estimate) you add the 23% sales tax to the cost of the coat at purchase and voila. the coat is, say it with me, 100 dollars... did prices go up?? no. did government lose revenue?? no. did we just gain a legal and fair advantage over the entire world in the global market? of course. bc say we export that now 77 dollar coat to europe and pay only 10% in tariffs, that coat is how much? roughly 85 dollars. how much was it when we exported the same coat under the current tax code? 110 dollars. so how much are european countries gonna have to drop their prices just to compete with an AMERICAN made product? approx. 25 dollars... so whats not to understand?

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

For Example:

The current cost of a Coat is 100 dollars. thats including all the sales, corporate, payroll, etc. taxes. that adds up to about 22-24% of the 100 dollars of the cost of that coat. all taxes passed on to the consumer. if you remove those and issue a consumption tax like the FairTax, the cost of those goods will drop by nature of free market competition that percentage to say 77 dollars. (23% for an even estimate) you add the 23% sales tax to the cost of the coat at purchase and voila. the coat is, say it with me, 100 dollars... did prices go up?? no. did government lose revenue?? no. did we just gain a legal and fair advantage over the entire world in the global market? of course. bc say we export that now 77 dollar coat to europe and pay only 10% in tariffs, that coat is how much? roughly 85 dollars. how much was it when we exported the same coat under the current tax code? 110 dollars. so how much are european countries gonna have to drop their prices just to compete with an AMERICAN made product? approx. 25 dollars... so whats not to understand?

23% sales tax on a $77 item makes the grand total $94.71.

Who lost the $5.29 revenue?

[Florida_Model]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Yes I have read the bill. I've seen a little thing called "Alabama's Educational System" which is funded through sales tax. I don't want to see that same model try to fund our entire government. Furthermore, people can only buy so much "stuff." No matter how rich you are you can only own so much. Thinking that money is just going to keep rolling in off your sales tax or that prices are going to drop because corporations are now saving a chunk of money is pie-in-the-sky thinking.

I didn't make an ignorant statement, I just didn't agree with you. Sorry, killer.

Alabama is the poorest or next to poorest state in the country. their education system is not solely funded by a sales tax, and you cant blame a tax for being incapable of hiring better teachers. Pie in the sky thinking? how many trillion, and yes i said trillion, dollars do you think go untaxed by, say, illegal immigrants, tourists, the underground economy, etc.? they would be paying taxes and yes tourism funds things, your alabama example i counter with the example of the state of florida. they have no state income tax. and a relatively low sales tax, and yet they hold their own as the 15th largest economy in the WORLD. not the USA. and y?? bc tourists buy things, and ppl have to buy things, possession of the latest and greatest happens to be an american past time in case you forgot.

[Florida_Model]

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

23% sales tax on a $77 item makes the grand total $94.71.

Who lost the $5.29 revenue?

yea oops didnt crunch that right. so 23% deduction drops it to roughly 81 dollars from a 100, then with a 10% tariff that makes it an 89 dollar item in the world market versus the 110 it used to be. and when adding the nat'l sales tax in its still the same price at home as it always was. 100.

brain fart on my part as far as the math goes, but the point i was making still applied. the prices of the world would reduce to meet our superior price advantage.

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by Florida_Model

yea oops didnt crunch that right. so 23% deduction drops it to roughly 81 dollars from a 100, then with a 10% tariff that makes it an 89 dollar item in the world market versus the 110 it used to be. and when adding the nat'l sales tax in its still the same price at home as it always was. 100.

brain fart on my part as far as the math goes, but the point i was making still applied. the prices of the world would reduce to meet our superior price advantage.

No, a 23% deduction on a $100 item is $77. A 10% tariff makes it $84.70 and the 23% sales tax makes it $104.81. Someone just made an extra $4.81.

[Florida_Model]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

IThe Fair Tax plan is a terrible idea. I've seen what happens when your budget depends on sales tax.

How is this not an ignorant uncorroborated statement?

if you have read the bill then tell me, what can low income earners (those up to the poverty level) expect to pay if the Federal Income Tax were replaced with the FairTax? and if you know your taxes so well, who came up with the idea of a federal income tax? ill even give you a hint, if you were a communist this would be a no brainer..

[Florida_Model]

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

No, a 23% deduction on a $100 item is $77. A 10% tariff makes it $84.70 and the 23% sales tax makes it $104.81. Someone just made an extra $4.81.

no.... that 23% sales tax only gets applied to purchases made WITHIN the united states, so you dont apply the tariff if its within, and you dont apply the sales tax if its abroad. its one or the other not both.