[ixl4]

Been too long since my last for and against thread...

With the new information that tens of millions of Americans have had their entire phone records checked by the NSA and all other agencies are powerless to put a check on the NSA, what do you think?

Does the NSA or any other military or civilian for that matter agency have the right to check out whoever it wants to to protect us from some great threat?

Does the NSA have absolutely no right to check Americans and blatantly lie about not doing it until it leaks out?

Is this country turning into a socialist republic, or a totalitarian or dictatorship one?

or

Is the USA frinally on the right track about doing everything it can about the threat.

I must give my opinion... the threat is not here. My Jeep running over your cat is more of a threat than anything the G says is, and I am not checking your phone records.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by ixl4

...



Does the NSA or any other military or civilian for that matter agency have the right to check out whoever it wants to to protect us from some great threat?

.

NO

the only "threat" is the Govt, and all the clueless *d*o*s who play into it.

[Zulu]

Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Can you have all equally? No-- you cannot be happy without a life. You cannot have life without security. You can not have liberty if you want total security for you and your family.

So I would gladly give up my little privacy right if that means the gov. can snatch a terrorist scum who will blow up my child.

Besides I don't really care if the gov. knows I call my wife 3 times a day. If you got nothing to hide who the F cares.

[Nuthin]

Way back when I started work at a Telco and pretty regularly (not EVERY year) after that, I had to sign a document called The Secrecy of Communications Act. Basically that's a federal law that says that even the bare fact that a call took place is private, secret and protected by law. It rather amazes me that the gov't seems unaware they need some fairly hefty and specific reasons/permissions to circumvent that protection.

[bobjp]

I am not worried about what they would hear me talking about, but that isn't the point. Where do you draw the line. You can't give up your rights.

[mpd8488]

The key here is the idea of a slipery slope. If we are complacent with this, the government will be able to overstep its bounds even further in the name of a false sense of security. It may start with these under the table phone tapping of believed threats, but how long untill it spirals into screening all calls? The FDA just approved those little microchips that are stuck under your skin to hold medical records. How long before the gov't can just have those put in everybody to be scanned at will? There are red light cameras now at intersections, how long before those turn into video cameras and then cameras covering every public place. Eventualy there may be cameras in the home? Think it won't happen? Willing to bet your liberties on that one? We get angry when our second amendment rights are infringed up, why not when our right to privacy is not protected? The feds can tap these phone lines if they go through the proccess that every other law enforcement agency has too. Get a warrant from a real court, not a secret court that was set up to give out these warants unchecked. Bottom line is, this mesure makes it no harder or easier to catch terrorists, do it the honest way and gain the support of the people.

How much are we going to let the government curb our freedoms in the name of protecting against terrorism? as our liberties disapear, these freedoms we think we are fighting for, well they won't exist anymore. how does the quote go? "He who gives up a freedom for security deserves neither" (or something like that) As we give up our freedoms (the government isn't taking them, WE are giving them up) we head away from what makes America great.

If americans support these types of measures, THE TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by bobjp

I am not worried about what they would hear me talking about, but that isn't the point. Where do you draw the line. You can't give up your rights.

thats how I think of it, Where Do you draw the line ??

And for those who say "who F*** cares you have nothing to hide" I care and the govt begin in MY business isnt their business.

people who just bow down and say Ok do what ever you need to do to "protect me" people like that are why we have arguments like this, because if people didnt just stick their head in the sand and say oh well. than the Govt wouldnt have the opportunity to divide and conquer the American public on extremely sensative issues like this.

All I have to say, I shall bow out and try to refrain from this thread.

[grymsr]

if uncle sam wants to know how many times I call dominos pizza, I don't care

[mpd8488]

Originally Posted by grymsr

if uncle sam wants to know how many times I call dominos pizza, I don't care

So if Uncle Sam suddenly wanted to search your house whenever they want to its okay right, because you have nothing to hide? How about your car too?

[JungleLarry]

The NSA does whatever they want, whenever they want, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

[mpd8488]

Originally Posted by JungleLarry

The NSA does whatever they want, whenever they want, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

That is the complacent attitude that is really putting this country in danger. It may not seem like there is a whole lot you can do, but small things like writing to your representatives are a start. remember, the government is a reflection on the people and we can choose to change it. Congress would like nothing more than to take away power from intelligence agencies because they are always clashing, but presidents would rahter to keep that power under their belt, and the american public would freak if we stopped giving them this unchecked power because it would somehow leave us open to attack

[JungleLarry]

Originally Posted by mpd8488

That is the complacent attitude that is really putting this country in danger. It may not seem like there is a whole lot you can do, but small things like writing to your representatives are a start. remember, the government is a reflection on the people and we can choose to change it. Congress would like nothing more than to take away power from intelligence agencies because they are always clashing, but presidents would rahter to keep that power under their belt, and the american public would freak if we stopped giving them this unchecked power because it would somehow leave us open to attack

I guarantee presidential powers are going to drop DRASTICALLY in the next 3 years. Not a whole lot to worry about for now.

[Thug Nasty]

i really dont care, i know im not doing anything illegal at the moment, and until then, they can listen and track me all they want. now if they say i cant drive my jeep.................

[Awshux]

Originally Posted by JungleLarry

I guarantee presidential powers are going to drop DRASTICALLY in the next 3 years. Not a whole lot to worry about for now.

Believe me, I'm worried right now! Why should we have to wait 3 years? The fact that it's happening now is frightening in its own right, and simply confirms that it can happen at all. What happened to government of the people, for the people, and by the people? The worst part about this news today is that it's further proof that the executive branch has circumvented the basic structure of our governement to achieve its own ends. Our founding fathers envisioned a judicial branch and a legislative branch to bring balance to government. All I keep seeing is the current administration making a mockery of this idea, all in the name of "security." I'm sorry, but the govermnent keeping a database of my phone calls for the purpose of using them against me if they see fit doesn't sound much like freedom to me.

[ChristopherJ]

I read the title of the thread, and thought G stood for girlfriend. Weird.