[JeepinGirlCT]

With the insane heating oil prices it's got my husband and I considering switching/modifying our current oil burner to an alternate fuel one. We first looked at propane. I like how compact the units can be, but the cost of propane is pretty high. Does anyone here have any experience with pellet/multi fuel boilers, or regular log boilers? I'm totally open to suggestions, and thanks in advance for your feed back

[michiganmaveric]

I have an outdoor boiler that burns wood. Mine is the 5036.


http://www.centralboiler.com/models.php

I installed it myself with just a little help from the dealer. I use it to heat my house and my hot water. I went with a totally seperate system from my central heat, so basically I have 2 heat systems in my house.

I installed baseboard radiators for the boiler and love them. The heat is so much more even. I filled my propane tank last Oct. and still have over 40% left in the tank. I do use a good bit of wood, so if you do not have access to wood or it is costly in your area this may not be a good idea.

I have only had one time that the boiler could not keep up on heating the house and my gas system kicked in to supplement it. It only lasted for about 2 days and it was extremely cold, can you say below 0. I also live out in the country with no trees or anything to brake the wind. The combination of wind and extremely cold temps took it's toll and my gas system came on a little.

[laybackman]

Propane and regular gas give you less bang for the buck than heating oil.

Don't let the guy who sells you your oil, service your boiler. He will not do a decent job, trust me. They usually change the oil filter, pull the gun, change the nozzle run a vacuum cleaner somewhere near the firebox for thirty seconds and hit the road. Doing a good job takes the better part of one hour.

What needs to be done is the flue pipes have to be removed to be cleaned (and replaced every other heating season), and the top of the boiler opened so a long handled brush can be run through the internals of the boiler THEN the flue box can be vacuumed clean. 1/8" of soot on the boiler innards will cut heat transfer by a ~20% so your boiler guy/oil burner service guy has no incentive to do a good job.

I also run a smaller sized nozzle in the gun. A boiler comes from the factory with the LARGEST nozzle for that unit. Usually a 1.25 GPH nozzle. They may cut it back to a .85GPH nozzle so the black smoke don't gag you when you are in the yard. I install a .65GPH nozzle in mine. It runs a bit longer to get to temp, and less excess heat is produced that just goes up the chimney keeping the birds behinds warm. Stack temp can be maintained even though you are burning less GPH.
You want to save some real money? If your boiler is fairly new get it tuned by an honest serviceman. He will SHOW you what he will do.
Then invest in a solar hot water system. I did so myself 20 years ago. It was and still is THE BEST thing I ever invested in.

I also bought a multi fuel (coal or wood) boiler that tied into my hot water base board system in a piggy back fashion to my primary boiler. The cost of the fuel for the back-up boiler gets to you. Pellets are the way to go today but you can't go out back and cut down some pellets! By the way I sold the back-up boiler.

The solar hot water system produces a tremendous amount of hot water year round even on cloudy days. Keep in mind you will use more hot water in the summer than winter. IN the summer my oil burner only goes on when the sun has not cooperated. I don't burn squat for oil from late MAY until late Fall. There is one moving part, the circ pump (~$55.00) which has been replaced once every ten years. I just changed out the 'brain' after twenty years, That was expensive!..... $106.00 There are three Ventrols on the system they get changed ~ once every ten years also. The cost ~ $9.00 each. I change the fluid used to charge the system every 5 years. That currently costs just about $100.00. This got long! Hope I helped you out.

[Dr. Righteous]

Change your families diet to produce natural methane gas.

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by laybackman

Keep in mind you will use more hot water in the summer than winter.

Why is that?

[LilViper95]

My wife and I are working on building a house. We have been looking into all the different options available to create a super energy efficient home. We are looking at installing either the Acadia or the Cube from Hallowell International. http://www.gotohallowell.com/
The acadia works with an air exchanger, the cube unit (may not be avail. quite yet) works with baseboard hot water and also doubles as a hot water heater. We are trying to hold out until the Cube becomes available!

We are also going to be installing solar panels and possibly a windtower (if our town approves it). We are going to be connected to the power grid so we wont be using any batteries. So basically when we are not at home using energy during the daytime or whatever all the power produced by the panels/windtower will be fed back into the power grid giving us a credit with the electric company, then when we are at home we will draw power from the electric (hopefully not as much as we put in!) Ideally we would like to receive a check from the power company everymonth instead of paying in, but at the very least it should significantly reduce our power bill!

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by sparkchaser

Why is that?

Keep in mind you are making potable hot water. Hot weather + swimming + working in the yard +++ will necessitate more frequent showering. Winters don't.

[laybackman]

Originally Posted by LilViper95

My wife and I are working on building a house. We have been looking into all the different options available to create a super energy efficient home. We are looking at installing either the Acadia or the Cube from Hallowell International. http://www.gotohallowell.com/
The acadia works with an air exchanger, the cube unit (may not be avail. quite yet) works with baseboard hot water and also doubles as a hot water heater. We are trying to hold out until the Cube becomes available!

We are also going to be installing solar panels and possibly a windtower (if our town approves it). We are going to be connected to the power grid so we wont be using any batteries. So basically when we are not at home using energy during the daytime or whatever all the power produced by the panels/windtower will be fed back into the power grid giving us a credit with the electric company, then when we are at home we will draw power from the electric (hopefully not as much as we put in!) Ideally we would like to receive a check from the power company everymonth instead of paying in, but at the very least it should significantly reduce our power bill!

Don't heat pumps lose all efficiency at about 32F? They are used all throughout the warm climates especially down below the Mason-Dixon line where electricity is waaay cheaper than here in New England. Many get their electricity throught the Tennessee Valley Authority dam projects.
Heat pumps are good in moderate weather but that window for you is narrow.

I would build with the best energy efficient materials you can afford to build with. Become a low user of present fuels. Siting your home and design is most important. Passive solar comstruction with active solar components is the way to go.

Don't get all starry eyed about jacking into the matrix to sell electricity back to big electricity. They pay a pittance and the cost to buy and maintain your equipment is high for wind power. For photo voltaic cell technology you will never get your inital investment back it is so expensive.

IIRC they pay ~$0.04 for each KWH you sell them. What do they charge for it, about $0.20 KWH....sweet deal for them I'd say.

[JeepinGirlCT]

Originally Posted by laybackman

Propane and regular gas give you less bang for the buck than heating oil.

Don't let the guy who sells you your oil, service your boiler. He will not do a decent job, trust me. They usually change the oil filter, pull the gun, change the nozzle run a vacuum cleaner somewhere near the firebox for thirty seconds and hit the road. Doing a good job takes the better part of one hour.

What needs to be done is the flue pipes have to be removed to be cleaned (and replaced every other heating season), and the top of the boiler opened so a long handled brush can be run through the internals of the boiler THEN the flue box can be vacuumed clean. 1/8" of soot on the boiler innards will cut heat transfer by a ~20% so your boiler guy/oil burner service guy has no incentive to do a good job.





I also run a smaller sized nozzle in the gun. A boiler comes from the factory with the LARGEST nozzle for that unit. Usually a 1.25 GPH nozzle. They may cut it back to a .85GPH nozzle so the black smoke don't gag you when you are in the yard. I install a .65GPH nozzle in mine. It runs a bit longer to get to temp, and less excess heat is produced that just goes up the chimney keeping the birds behinds warm. Stack temp can be maintained even though you are burning less GPH.
You want to save some real money? If your boiler is fairly new get it tuned by an honest serviceman. He will SHOW you what he will do.
Then invest in a solar hot water system. I did so myself 20 years ago. It was and still is THE BEST thing I ever invested in.

I also bought a multi fuel (coal or wood) boiler that tied into my hot water base board system in a piggy back fashion to my primary boiler. The cost of the fuel for the back-up boiler gets to you. Pellets are the way to go today but you can't go out back and cut down some pellets! By the way I sold the back-up boiler.

The solar hot water system produces a tremendous amount of hot water year round even on cloudy days. Keep in mind you will use more hot water in the summer than winter. IN the summer my oil burner only goes on when the sun has not cooperated. I don't burn squat for oil from late MAY until late Fall. There is one moving part, the circ pump (~$55.00) which has been replaced once every ten years. I just changed out the 'brain' after twenty years, That was expensive!..... $106.00 There are three Ventrols on the system they get changed ~ once every ten years also. The cost ~ $9.00 each. I change the fluid used to charge the system every 5 years. That currently costs just about $100.00. This got long! Hope I helped you out.

We were considering propane because they have some really nice wall units that don't take up too much space, then realizing how expensive it is per BTU, it totally squashed that plan. I like pellets (we have a pellet stove downstairs already), and will probably go that route. I do agree that doing the log furnace is a good plan since pellet suppliers could run low, however, I have to do something that I can manage (I'm a small woman), and my husband has bad shoulders, so chopping wood is out.

I really like the solar idea. Our roof gets great sun exposure all year round. Any ideas on how much a basic system would run (roughly)? We also have a wind generator that we're going to try out. Honestly, nothing would make me happier than getting off the grid, but practically speaking that probably won't happen anytime soon. I live in CT and electric rates are ridiculous along with the fuel prices. Right now we have the highest gas prices in the whole union, including Alaska, and the fuel tax is due to go up on July 1. Un****ingbelievable.

Thanks for the info on the boilers. Please keep it coming!

[sparkchaser]

Originally Posted by laybackman

Keep in mind you are making potable hot water. Hot weather + swimming + working in the yard +++ will necessitate more frequent showering. Winters don't.

Ah. I shower every morning and every evening regardless of the season but yeah, I can see that. At least the sun is out more in the summer.

[laybackman]

Check out this article: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...t/2270791.html
Give you the basics and the savings are realistic given my 20 years of solar use.
Here is the basic of my system.

REVERE SUN PRIDE SYSTEM

STORAGE TANK: 120 GALLON SUN PRIDE
CONTROLLER: INDEPENDENT ENERGY INC. MODEL C-30 (This has just been replaced by the Model 130 after 20 years of service)
Independent Energy 10 K Ω thermistor

THREE SOLAR PANELS :
PANEL MANUFACTURER & MODEL NUMBER: REVERE #79132
GLAZING: SOLABOX
SURFACE: (unreadable)
DRY WIEGHT: 90 LBS EACH
Go to www.solar-components.com They are located in Manchester,NH and have a good selection of passive and active products. Phone number is 603-668-8186. Just 'Google' solar hot water and you will get a bunch of information to include building your own system.

FWIW I my home is a 55' x 26' late 60's raised ranch. It has new low E windows that are doubled glazed, the insulation in the attic area has been increased by 9". Wed keep the temp at 67/day 65/night. The lower level is finished and heated also with hot water BB oil heat. I have no hoit water tank other than the solar storage tank and the boiler has a tankless coil. The boiler gets truned off for the entire summer unless needed for hot water. Between the two floors I have ~2200 sq ft of heated space in my home. For the years 2003-2007 the average gallons of fuel oil used was 692.3 gallons per year.....Not bad for a retrofitted home. I have kept track of my home heating usage and prices sine I bought my home in 1973. I'll make you sick right now. My first fill up was on March 10 1973. I received 115 gallons of fuel.....the cost.....$23.00 or $0.20/gallon!

You can make decisions on design, siting and material along with passive and active heat saving components to better that eaily, given similar sqaure area. The best part is your savings INCREASE as the price of fuel goes up.

My system was bought by me then the Gov't was nice enough to refund me all of my expense through income tax give backs over a five year period following installation. I think active solar hot water systems should be mandatory on all new construction for both potable hot water AND hot water or hot air assistance for heating. BUT big electricity or big oil can't make a dime on that so expect no big play in that direction. The big push is for the photo voltaic/silicon based electrical panels with a sell back to big electricity. You gotta love it......You buy the expensive equipment. You maintain the equipment. You sell them any excess electricity you have for ~$0.04 per KWH while they are selling it to you for ~$0.20 per KWH. That's a sweet deal...but for whom? They have expenses for producing jiuce..so do you. It should be a straight swap minus any profit margin they have. Now I could hop on that band wagon!

[glatt513]

A friend of mine uses the outdoor wood fired boiler set up and it works good for them. Only trouble is if you don't have a readily available supply of firewood its going to be a PITA. He lives in a very rural area and owns 80 acres. Between his place and several neighbors he has access to boatloads of firewood so its no big deal for him. He is self employed so during slow periods he cuts wood (he even makes bundles of camp firewood he sells to the state parks while he is at it). Sometimes he paints stuff for me in his shop and I cut firewood for him in return.

This is less expensive to heat your house this way, but it is a time consumer. With the price of heating oil being what it is you will probably have to, though.

[drysuitdiver]

Originally Posted by laybackman

Don't heat pumps lose all efficiency at about 32F? They are used all throughout the warm climates especially down below the Mason-Dixon line where electricity is waaay cheaper than here in New England. Many get their electricity throught the Tennessee Valley Authority dam projects.
Heat pumps are good in moderate weather but that window for you is narrow.

I would build with the best energy efficient materials you can afford to build with. Become a low user of present fuels. Siting your home and design is most important. Passive solar comstruction with active solar components is the way to go.

Don't get all starry eyed about jacking into the matrix to sell electricity back to big electricity. They pay a pittance and the cost to buy and maintain your equipment is high for wind power. For photo voltaic cell technology you will never get your inital investment back it is so expensive.

IIRC they pay ~$0.04 for each KWH you sell them. What do they charge for it, about $0.20 KWH....sweet deal for them I'd say.

ever worked a mine in the winter?? it doesn't get cold at all geothermal energy is the big one for the future.

[jeep_on]

You could always run BioDiesel in your oil furnace. Its cheap and easy to make. Its been talked about before in this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f7/bio-diesel-no2-oil-furnace-555948/

[LilViper95]

Originally Posted by laybackman

Don't heat pumps lose all efficiency at about 32F? They are used all throughout the warm climates especially down below the Mason-Dixon line where electricity is waaay cheaper than here in New England. Many get their electricity throught the Tennessee Valley Authority dam projects.
Heat pumps are good in moderate weather but that window for you is narrow.

typical heat pumps...yes! I am no expert so my info is based soley off what I have read about this company and they are built in my hometown so I have spoken to a few people in the company.
this is taken from their website:

Q: I’ve always heard that heat pumps don’t work in colder climates. Is that true?

A: That is true. A typical air source heat pump cannot maintain the needed heat output to keep your home comfortable when temperatures fall below 30°F. However, the Acadia™ can. Using our patented Opti-Cycle™ Technology, the Acadia™ can maintain efficient comfort at outdoor temperatures as low as -30°F.



Q: Aren’t heat pumps expensive to run in cold climates? Don’t you need a backup system?

A: They have been until now. Typical heat pumps lose their ability to produce heat between 30°- 45° and they subsequently require some sort of a backup heat source to maintain comfortable conditions within the home. This backup source is usually in the form of electrical resistance heat or a fossil fuel system. The Acadia™ does not require this backup and can continue to heat using the efficient Opti-Cycle™ Technology, an ability unknown to traditional air source heat pumps.

Don't get all starry eyed about jacking into the matrix to sell electricity back to big electricity. They pay a pittance and the cost to buy and maintain your equipment is high for wind power. For photo voltaic cell technology you will never get your inital investment back it is so expensive.

IIRC they pay ~$0.04 for each KWH you sell them. What do they charge for it, about $0.20 KWH....sweet deal for them I'd say.

I may have to look a little further into this, we are in the beginning stages of our process (just had soil test on lot getting ready to clear it and start the septic and well) I was apparently mis-informed on the prices the power company pays for the energy....thanks!