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Unread 11-07-2013, 08:11 AM   #91
ashland82391
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OPs question was asked/answered. IMO it's great that the thread is drifting into other info now. Learning is occurring
:
Right lol, I'm just sitting back and reading now :-)

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Unread 11-07-2013, 09:30 AM   #92
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I've always thought the Dardick .38 was a great home defense pistol. I'm dissapointed it didn't catch on.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 09:36 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Balvar24 View Post
I've always thought the Dardick .38 was a great home defense pistol. I'm dissapointed it didn't catch on.
Only three rounds.

The .38 and .357 are overlooked though. The .357 may be the best self defense round. People like semi and there isn't much when it comes for semi's in these calibers. I suppose it has to do with the assortment of bullet configurations.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 10:36 AM   #94
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Only three rounds.
Dardick 1100/1500 held 10+1.

Dardick 2000 held 20+1.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #95
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You are talking about a trained team clearing a room. This is very different than a home owner reacting to a bump or thump in the night. The two are not comparable.
It's obviously not the same thing - I thought members here could read past that and acknowledge that gear choices and tactics can be transferable. Teams like that are pros at clearing structures. There's a reason they don't choose the SG. Those reasons are transferable to home defense.

Whether a team dynamic entry or a one man clear, you want:
-a short, easily maneuverable weapon
-a bright weaponlight
-the ability to aim in the dark (red dot sight, tritium front sight, etc)
-a magazine-fed weapon with more than 'enough' capacity
-(this is an obvious one) the training and proficiency to be able to move down a hall or into a room with said weapon.

Am I going to be in full kit using hand signals and clearing a T-intersection with my wife? Uh no. Obviously. But the gear and tactics used in CQB can be applied to defending your home.

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Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post
Right lol, I'm just sitting back and reading now :-)
Both agreement and disagreement brings about great discussion on topics like these.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Munch520 View Post
It's obviously not the same thing - I thought members here could read past that and acknowledge that gear choices and tactics can be transferable. Teams like that are pros at clearing structures. There's a reason they don't choose the SG. Those reasons are transferable to home defense.

Whether a team dynamic entry or a one man clear, you want:
-a short, easily maneuverable weapon
-a bright weaponlight
-the ability to aim in the dark (red dot sight, tritium front sight, etc)
-a magazine-fed weapon with more than 'enough' capacity
-(this is an obvious one) the training and proficiency to be able to move down a hall or into a room with said weapon.

Am I going to be in full kit using hand signals and clearing a T-intersection with my wife? Uh no. Obviously. But the gear and tactics used in CQB can be applied to defending your home.



Both agreement and disagreement brings about great discussion on topics like these.
My brother was a boarding officer in the CG, he carried a shotgun. This was a while back. I am sure you could find advocates of using a shotgun when clearing a room.

But I will say the organizing as s a team versus working as an individual is different. I am not trying to promote the use of the shotgun, I am just saying you can't compare a trained team, their weapons and tactics to some guy checking out a noise in his house. It is one person versus a team, not the same.

I have mixed onions on lights. I like one that is independent of my weapon. I also keep some lights on in my home and have a video monitoring system.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 01:49 PM   #97
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I have mixed opinions on lights. I like one that is independent of my weapon. I also keep some lights on in my home and have a video monitoring system.
One eye IR, one eye thermal, one eye normal. Now you're ready for anything.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 02:19 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Ross View Post
My brother was a boarding officer in the CG, he carried a shotgun. This was a while back. I am sure you could find advocates of using a shotgun when clearing a room.

But I will say the organizing as s a team versus working as an individual is different. I am not trying to promote the use of the shotgun, I am just saying you can't compare a trained team, their weapons and tactics to some guy checking out a noise in his house. It is one person versus a team, not the same.

I have mixed onions on lights. I like one that is independent of my weapon. I also keep some lights on in my home and have a video monitoring system.
Definitely. Most patrol officers I know like shotguns. But the only training they've had is at the academy. When I've asked more dialed in cops/armorers about the lack of rifles in cruisers it's because 'they didn't fit in the rack' or 'I wish - but that's not in the budget'. Still most all stick to a pistol, and those that are allowed, grab a rifle from their trunk if need-be.

We'll just disagree on that then . You're getting hung up on one detail (team vs solo). My point was that the majority of the guys that do it for a living choose rifle and pistol. And the skills with those weapons, and support gear (like lights), can be transferred to home defense. And I'm far from the only one that believes that. Hell, I've seen Rangers teaching IT guys and engineers how to navigate a structure. Obviously two completely different goals (direct action vs defense) but you know what...the instructors/AIs and the students were using the same gear.

I prefer 2-handed control on a weapon so I like mine mounted. Both in terms of shooting and retaining the weapon in a hands-on situation. It is also nice to have the flexibility to have a free hand for things like door knobs. Or drag a 'frozen' kid to safety.

The only downside I've heard to a weapon-mounted light is that you have to flag a subject to ID them. Kind of true, but with the proper light, the spill will illuminate very well when in a low ready position.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 02:31 PM   #99
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Definitely. Most patrol officers I know like shotguns. But the only training they've had is at the academy. When I've asked more dialed in cops/armorers about the lack of rifles in cruisers it's because 'they didn't fit in the rack' or 'I wish - but that's not in the budget'. Still most all stick to a pistol, and those that are allowed, grab a rifle from their trunk if need-be.

We'll just disagree on that then . You're getting hung up on one detail (team vs solo). My point was that the majority of the guys that do it for a living choose rifle and pistol. And the skills with those weapons, and support gear (like lights), can be transferred to home defense. And I'm far from the only one that believes that. Hell, I've seen Rangers teaching IT guys and engineers how to navigate a structure. Obviously two completely different goals (direct action vs defense) but you know what...the instructors/AIs and the students were using the same gear.

I prefer 2-handed control on a weapon so I like mine mounted. Both in terms of shooting and retaining the weapon in a hands-on situation. It is also nice to have the flexibility to have a free hand for things like door knobs. Or drag a 'frozen' kid to safety.

The only downside I've heard to a weapon-mounted light is that you have to flag a subject to ID them. Kind of true, but with the proper light, the spill will illuminate very well when in a low ready position.

Again, I am not an advocate of shotguns, rifle or carbine for home security. I can see having a shot gun loaded with 00 at the door as the bad guy comes in but that is about it. Mine is a semi and shoots fast. But I only use it for clay pigeons and I suck at it. I like my 1911. I understand that having experience working on a team is beneficial but the average guy will never have that.

I can shoot effectively with light in one hand pressed into my shooting hand. The door knob is a legit issue. I like being able to bounce a light off the wall and have my weapon pointed in a different direction, just a personal choice.

I live in the country and have a poll light on each side of my home. Unless the electricity is completely out my home is never that dark where I can see my way around. I also keep light on in the house. My thoughts are bad guys are like coach roaches and avoid the lights. I have dogs that are good at giving me some sort of warning.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 07:45 PM   #100
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. I have dogs that are good at giving me some sort of warning.
This is a great little point on home defense. I am not saying all criminals wll avoid a dog all the time, but having a good dog works wonders. I would bet that a lot more criminals have bypassed houses because an alert dog in the last year than have run out of a house because the shucking of a pump shotgun in all of time.

It doesn't even have to be a big mean guard dog. My one and only potential break-in was thwarted by my wife's little yorkie and he was not even one to bark. He just got all nervous and ran in circles by the door when anyone was outside.

One night at 3AM I was not able to sleep and was sitting at my computer. I could hear the dog skittering around on the tile by the front door. I stuffed my wife's Glock 26 in my front pocket and went out the back door, walking around the house to the front. As I came around the front corner I was 25 feet away from a guy walking straight at me across my driveway. It was 90+ degrees out and he was wearing a hoodie with the hood over his head. Suspicious?

My heart hit my throat and my hand went to the pistol. This is when he saw me. I had instinctively gone into an shooting stance with my offhand on my stomach like they train you so you don't shoot your off hand during a draw. Until that night I did not even know that was ingrained.

He startled, made a 90 degree turn, and hauled it out of there. The pistol never cleared my pocket. The stance was enough.

The dog may have saved me from having to shoot him if he had actually entered the house. I credit that that dog greatly for that, but now I have one that actually barks.
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Unread 11-07-2013, 08:23 PM   #101
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Great point about the dog. They are a great layer of security
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Unread 11-07-2013, 10:50 PM   #102
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Great point about the dog. They are a great layer of security
Just make sure they are trained well some of my friends dogs will help you steal the TV
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Unread 11-08-2013, 04:49 AM   #103
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Just make sure they are trained well some of my friends dogs will help you steal the TV
I had a little shi t zu that was a great alarm dog and a 120lb lab that was worthless in that respect. I have three dogs. Their personalities are all different when it comes to this. Some dogs are better alarm dogs than others.
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Unread 11-08-2013, 08:38 AM   #104
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This is a great little point on home defense. I am not saying all criminals wll avoid a dog all the time, but having a good dog works wonders. I would bet that a lot more criminals have bypassed houses because an alert dog in the last year than have run out of a house because the shucking of a pump shotgun in all of time.

It doesn't even have to be a big mean guard dog. My one and only potential break-in was thwarted by my wife's little yorkie and he was not even one to bark. He just got all nervous and ran in circles by the door when anyone was outside.

One night at 3AM I was not able to sleep and was sitting at my computer. I could hear the dog skittering around on the tile by the front door. I stuffed my wife's Glock 26 in my front pocket and went out the back door, walking around the house to the front. As I came around the front corner I was 25 feet away from a guy walking straight at me across my driveway. It was 90+ degrees out and he was wearing a hoodie with the hood over his head. Suspicious?

My heart hit my throat and my hand went to the pistol. This is when he saw me. I had instinctively gone into an shooting stance with my offhand on my stomach like they train you so you don't shoot your off hand during a draw. Until that night I did not even know that was ingrained.

He startled, made a 90 degree turn, and hauled it out of there. The pistol never cleared my pocket. The stance was enough.

The dog may have saved me from having to shoot him if he had actually entered the house. I credit that that dog greatly for that, but now I have one that actually barks.
99.999999999% of bad guys have 1 thing in common. They dont want to be seen. You don't need a pistol, stance doesnt matter, just being seen is all it takes. Burglars arent afraid of being bitten, theyre afraid the dog will make noise. The same people that the magic sound works on generally will have the same response to a 'howdy' in the darkness.

Even specific phrasing works. When a man decides to stand up to a half dozen obviously armed people, you can rack a round as many times as you want with no affect. But in that situation 1 specific phrase works wonders. "**** it, kill him". It has been 100% effective in dropping a bg to the ground ime.


Working the streets/house by yourself, pistol. Its the most versatile. With a 2nd you go pistol and maybe long gun. 3+ you always want a long gun unless the situation makes it a bad idea. A single well placed bullet from a low recoiling rifle is preferable imo.

From a defensive position (hiding in the bedroom waiting for bg to open door) shotgun works as long as you have extra ammo with you. At typical in house ranges a shotgun is no easier to hit with than a 30-30. Spread only works at longer ranges and the length almost always puts you at a dissadvantage while hunting indoors. And unless youre properly equipped for retention and trained for the same its relatively easy to lose it.

For me,my shotguns are in a secure place with the rest of my collection. My as short as legally possible ar has gone from being in the squads trunk to being scoped and converted to a coyote rifle. But a pistol is never far from me
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Unread 11-08-2013, 08:47 AM   #105
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99.999999999% of bad guys have 1 thing in common. They dont want to be seen. You don't need a pistol, stance doesnt matter, just being seen is all it takes. Burglars arent afraid of being bitten, theyre afraid the dog will make noise. The same people that the magic sound works on generally will have the same response to a 'howdy' in the darkness.

Even specific phrasing works. When a man decides to stand up to a half dozen obviously armed people, you can rack a round as many times as you want with no affect. But in that situation 1 specific phrase works wonders. "**** it, kill him". It has been 100% effective in dropping a bg to the ground ime.


Working the streets/house by yourself, pistol. Its the most versatile. With a 2nd you go pistol and maybe long gun. 3+ you always want a long gun unless the situation makes it a bad idea. A single well placed bullet from a low recoiling rifle is preferable imo.

From a defensive position (hiding in the bedroom waiting for bg to open door) shotgun works as long as you have extra ammo with you. At typical in house ranges a shotgun is no easier to hit with than a 30-30. Spread only works at longer ranges and the length almost always puts you at a dissadvantage while hunting indoors. And unless youre properly equipped for retention and trained for the same its relatively easy to lose it.

For me,my shotguns are in a secure place with the rest of my collection. My as short as legally possible ar has gone from being in the squads trunk to being scoped and converted to a coyote rifle. But a pistol is never far from me
This is why even keeping light on in the home and have the exterior light can be a benefit.
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