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Unread 11-01-2013, 11:32 PM   #16
Coyotes97
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Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post
Thanks for the input guys. I definitely think I'm leaning toward the 9mm for carrying purposes even though the 12 is just plain fun to shoot. Eventually I'll be pick up the 12g.
Now the question is which 9mm? Anything you have been looking at?

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Unread 11-01-2013, 11:35 PM   #17
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Now the question is which 9mm? Anything you have been looking at?
Um, can't remember the brand but it's in the lower end. It cost 399$. The guys at the counter said it was a decent gun but it would cause fatigue because it was light weight, if that makes sense?
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Unread 11-01-2013, 11:48 PM   #18
Coyotes97
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I am not sure what your dealer was referring to but always be wary buying what the guy behind a gun counter recommends. They are often incentivized to sell a particular model.

If $399 is your price point I would consider a Canik 55 or Tri-Star (same guns). They are Turkish made handguns based on the legendary CZ75. Really decent quality and under $400.

http://www.canik55.com/index.php?lang=en

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=374140823

Do some searching and you will not find it easy finding bad press on these things. They are all kind of thick for carry but it can work if you are committed enough.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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Don't get me started on these things. I don't want to hate on your gun but I see the OP showing interest and it is only fair that he get the counterpoint. But as long as you are happy with yours DO NOT listen to me! The world would be a better place if we all worried a lot less about what some idiot on the other end of the internet says. Anyway....

The .410 revolvers like the Taurus Judge and S&W governor are fine as long as the buyer knows what they are getting.
i knew what i was gettin when i got it and for home defense i have the .45 colt hollow points. i do agree there is a lot of hype about the revolvers. my idea of shootin for fun is goin family's house out in the middle of no where. i am also using it to teach my 5 yr old daughter gun safety. she enjoyed watchin me clean it and i even let her shoot a few rounds(with ear and eye protection). she had a blast and actually hit the target. i would have preferred a pistol with easier to find ammo(.45 can be hard) but i got it for a good deal.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:28 AM   #20
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9mm isn't gonna stop a tweaker in your house.

You may want to reevaluate your priorities and get the shotgun. The mossberg 500 has limitless versatility with barrels and ammo types. And rounds are cheap too. Start there. Then move on. I used to have monthly shoots where we would all have an opportunity to fire each other's weapons. It gave a lot of experience to those who were curious about certain models.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ashland82391 View Post

Um, can't remember the brand but it's in the lower end. It cost 399$. The guys at the counter said it was a decent gun but it would cause fatigue because it was light weight, if that makes sense?
I would personally recommend the Glock 19. Reliable and very comfortable to shoot. The guy at the counter says itd cause fatigue because a lightweight gun is going to kick more and move more in your hand while shooting than a heavier gun. Try out different guns, and buy what you like best. Hopefully you have a local range that rents guns so you can try out several. In the end, if its not something you love to shoot, you won't shoot it often so when you need to use it, you may as well not even have it.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:44 AM   #22
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9mm isn't gonna stop a tweaker in your house.

You may want to reevaluate your priorities and get the shotgun. The mossberg 500 has limitless versatility with barrels and ammo types. And rounds are cheap too. Start there. Then move on. I used to have monthly shoots where we would all have an opportunity to fire each other's weapons. It gave a lot of experience to those who were curious about certain models.
Especially with hollow points and a clip that holds 15+1, you can stop more tweakers in your house with a 9mm than a Mossberg 500 that holds 3-5 shells. And that shotgun won't do much for you if you're at the mall when you need the protection.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotes97 View Post
I am not sure what your dealer was referring to but always be wary buying what the guy behind a gun counter recommends. They are often incentivized to sell a particular model.

If $399 is your price point I would consider a Canik 55 or Tri-Star (same guns). They are Turkish made handguns based on the legendary CZ75. Really decent quality and under $400.

http://www.canik55.com/index.php?lang=en

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=374140823

Do some searching and you will not find it easy finding bad press on these things. They are all kind of thick for carry but it can work if you are committed enough.
He didn't recommend it. It was the one that caught my eye mainly do to the price.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:48 AM   #24
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Especially with hollow points and a clip that holds 15+1, you can stop more tweakers in your house with a 9mm than a Mossberg 500 that holds 3-5 shells. And that shotgun won't do much for you if you're at the mall when you need the protection.
So ture thats why I practice aim it does not matter how much amo you have or how big the round is. Its 80% where it hits.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:53 AM   #25
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Especially with hollow points and a clip that holds 15+1, you can stop more tweakers in your house with a 9mm than a Mossberg 500 that holds 3-5 shells. And that shotgun won't do much for you if you're at the mall when you need the protection.
If you need 15+1, you bought the wrong gun. I like the spread with the mossy for home defense and as a target gun to shoot clays or any other target as well. For a home defense pistol, nothing less than .40 if not .45. I picked up a smith and wesson M&P .45 back in '08 and its been at my side ever since. I practice weekly with it despite the crimson trace grip and the streamlight "burglar illuminator". The only time I carry anything else is when I'm wheeling and I have a built in holster for my smith and wesson airweight .38 which is loaded with two rounds of #12 snake shot and three rounds of semi jacketed hollow points. My .45 has the hornady critical defense 230 grain hollow points at the ready. I may only have ten shots, but I only need one.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 12:55 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Anticanman View Post
9mm isn't gonna stop a tweaker in your house.

You may want to reevaluate your priorities and get the shotgun. The mossberg 500 has limitless versatility with barrels and ammo types. And rounds are cheap too. Start there. Then move on. I used to have monthly shoots where we would all have an opportunity to fire each other's weapons. It gave a lot of experience to those who were curious about certain models.
Good point. Plus, as previously started, the "Magic" sound is pretty intimidating. I would really hate to ever have to shoot someone so maybe if it's some young kid breaking into my home that would scare then off...
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Unread 11-02-2013, 01:03 AM   #27
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When your heart is racing, your fundamentals go out the window unless you've been through extensive training and practice constantly. To save your life in your house, you would want something that can compensate for accuracy. When someone charges down your hallway at you, firing from the hip is always a possibility with a shotgun vs drawing an outline of them with your missed rounds three houses down. Have the right training and the right ammunition for the right situation.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 01:06 AM   #28
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When your heart is racing, your fundamentals go out the window unless you've been through extensive training and practice constantly. To save your life in your house, you would want something that can compensate for accuracy. When someone charges down your hallway at you, firing from the hip is always a possibility with a shotgun vs drawing an outline of them with your missed rounds three houses down. Have the right training and the right ammunition for the right situation.
Great points anti! 12 gage it is. Later down the road I'll get a hand gun.
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Unread 11-02-2013, 01:29 AM   #29
Coyotes97
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9mm isn't gonna stop a tweaker in your house.
Handgun rounds have their power level and shotguns have theirs (more ), but it's silly to say flat out what a certain caliber will and won't do. The effect drugs have is to eliminate the psychological factor of a gunshot wound. Most fights end when someone realizes they are hurt, or about to be hurt, and decides they have better places to be than in a gunfight. "Tweakers" may never have that realization. But when the blood pressure falls low enough the fight ends anyway. This will not be instant even with the shotgun, but it will generally be shorter.

As to your comment that there is some sort of .40 minimum, I disagree completely. My Dad's best friend killed a bear outside his tent with a .22. With one shot! If the lowliest of cartridges can do that, surely a caliber that is 10 times more powerful can kill a delicate human, drugs or no.

I have often referred to the .45 ACP as "God's caliber". To say I am a fan is an understatement. But my second favorite is the often underestimated 9mm. If you really look at the energy various handguns rounds produce, and graph them on a realistic scale, they are a lot closer than the big caliber fans would have you believe. A few % separates all the major players. The 9mm is a proven fight stopper that is easier to learn with, cheaper to shoot, and chambered in every great handgun out there.

I am not a big advocate of the .40, especially for a beginner. I bought my first .40 for USPSA competition with the idea that it would make me faster. My times went up from my 45! The recoil is not far short of a .45 but it's snappy delivery makes me slower. I will take 8+1 rounds of 45 or 15+1 rounds of 9mm any day. The .40 S&W tries to be that perfect compromise between the two. The "best of both worlds". For me it just isn't. I truly don't believe it's much more effective than 9mm but the capacity and recoil penalties are real.

I am not disagreeing with your advice of a 12 GA. It is more effective. Plain and simple. A handgun is designed for portability, not power. Under stress the longer gun is easier to aim, with or without the sights. If all things are equal, pick the shotgun or rifle. But if portability and concealability are desirable, the handgun is really the only choice. In the end I must advise what we always advise when the "which should I buy" question comes up: BOTH!


Edit to add a favorite quote when it comes to caliber wars: "Shot placement is king. Penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins."
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Unread 11-02-2013, 02:17 AM   #30
970001zj
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Handgun rounds have their power level and shotguns have theirs (more ), but it's silly to say flat out what a certain caliber will and won't do. The effect drugs have is to eliminate the psychological factor of a gunshot wound. Most fights end when someone realizes they are hurt, or about to be hurt, and decides they have better places to be than in a gunfight. "Tweakers" may never have that realization. But when the blood pressure falls low enough the fight ends anyway. This will not be instant even with the shotgun, but it will generally be shorter.

As to your comment that there is some sort of .40 minimum, I disagree completely. My Dad's best friend killed a bear outside his tent with a .22. With one shot! If the lowliest of cartridges can do that, surely a caliber that is 10 times more powerful can kill a delicate human, drugs or no.

I have often referred to the .45 ACP as "God's caliber". To say I am a fan is an understatement. But my second favorite is the often underestimated 9mm. If you really look at the energy various handguns rounds produce, and graph them on a realistic scale, they are a lot closer than the big caliber fans would have you believe. A few % separates all the major players. The 9mm is a proven fight stopper that is easier to learn with, cheaper to shoot, and chambered in every great handgun out there.

I am not a big advocate of the .40, especially for a beginner. I bought my first .40 for USPSA competition with the idea that it would make me faster. My times went up from my 45! The recoil is not far short of a .45 but it's snappy delivery makes me slower. I will take 8+1 rounds of 45 or 15+1 rounds of 9mm any day. The .40 S&W tries to be that perfect compromise between the two. The "best of both worlds". For me it just isn't. I truly don't believe it's much more effective than 9mm but the capacity and recoil penalties are real.

I am not disagreeing with your advice of a 12 GA. It is more effective. Plain and simple. A handgun is designed for portability, not power. Under stress the longer gun is easier to aim, with or without the sights. If all things are equal, pick the shotgun or rifle. But if portability and concealability are desirable, the handgun is really the only choice. In the end I must advise what we always advise when the "which should I buy" question comes up: BOTH!


Edit to add a favorite quote when it comes to caliber wars: "Shot placement is king. Penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins."
lol was the bear all ****ed up on something or just chilling doing bear things ?

i imagine the bear was doing nothing , wasnt in a state to take many shots and the shooter had a year to aim
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