9mm or 12 Gage - Page 11 - JeepForum.com
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post #151 of 152 Old 11-14-2013, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Indy View Post
Strobes are only useful if they are accessorized with glow sticks and party whistles

Most things that are sold fall into the tacticool category, not tactical. While strobes etc may be disorienting I would be hard pressed to think of a use for them in a typical SD situation without plenty of prep time to know the situation was going to happen.

Lights are always in issue for me. There are proponents of lights so bright that the house will burst into flame as soon as they're turned on in the belief it will be so dazzling that a BG will just start crying and give up, or curl into a ball and be an easy target. Probably not going to happen that way. You have to start looking at motivation again.

Your typical burglar(bad guy) doesn't want to get caught, pretty much the end of his story. That's why so many burglaries happen in broad daylight. Odds are people are at work so no-one to catch them. But on to night time, hit them with any flashlight, odds are they run. Their motivation is pretty low level. You don't know that you are running into a low level guy though, so don't plan on them.

Then you have the real bad guys which are fewer and farther in between. They either don't care that you're home, or want you to be home. The guys that want you to be there, they are 100% dangerous. The don't care guys are only 75%. The dangerous folks, yep you can blind them for a second with an unexpected light. But that light 100% is a target indicator and you have to expect them to be armed. So blind mr bg and expect to start taking fire in the direction of the blinding light. Don't expect to blind someone and just put them down immediately. You're in for a fight so expect a fight.

There's the point of weapon mounted vs non weapon mounted lights. Mounted, frees up a hand and makes it easier to hunt. But odds are that light is right in front of something you don't want being shot at. Non-mounted, you lose a hand but you can hold the indicator away from you and let it draw fire. It's up to you which you prefer, weigh the risks etc.

On the hunter side, we had to beat light discipline into pretty much every rookie. If you pay no attention to it you end up standing backlit in a doorway shining your flashlight around and basically begging someone to kill you. Or the rookie has a light mounted on his pistol and got me punching him in the chest every time I had a light flash across my back or once or twice booted his butt out of the house. If I got shot it wasn't going to be in my back by him.

Doors are treated specially, moved through quickly and 99% of the time you use your flashlight to find the lightswitch. BG hiding in a room (ambush), he knows you're there, where you are and you're prey because you don't even know if he is in there. You cannot move through a house quietly enough to be un-noticed by anyone paying the smallest amount of attention. You can't open a door without the person in that room KNOWING you will be coming through it at some point.

Move quickly and turn the lights on, you've leveled that part of the playing field. It becomes a fight instead of a murder. You may win, you may lose. But at least you're in the fight. If you move quickly and don't get to the lights before things get noisy, you have a good target indicator. As long as the muzzle flash is cone shaped and not donut, you're in a good position.

If you're in your house, you should know it and you get to play ambush instead of needing the flashlight to hunt. Ambush will win 99% of the time.
Thanks you make great points! I use to practice air soft as a kid. I had a laser and I learned real fast that it did not work to my advantage. I took the attachment off and used the laser to make my cat go crazy.
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post #152 of 152 Old 12-10-2013, 01:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Sorry to resurrect this, but I just received a brief that contained some ballistic charts pertinent to this discussion. I can't post everything but here's a pretty telling chart. This is especially for everyone that thinks the SG is the safest tool to us in structure, in terms of penetration. Note that the buckshot and 9mm travel roughly 150% further than the .223/5.56 round after penetrating wallboard, while the 45ACP travels 200% further. The pistol rounds and the buckshot are slower moving yet have more momentum, so contrary to popular belief, they will penetrate wallboard and travel much further than a faster moving, lower mass projectile like the .223.

Credit to Dr. Roberts

2005 WK (sold)
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