38 special vs. 40 cal - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General > General Discussion > 38 special vs. 40 cal

Savvy/Currie Aluminum Control ArmsRockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4w

Reply
Unread 08-29-2011, 10:35 PM   #1
armyRN
Web Wheeler
 
armyRN's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Copperas Cove, Texas
Posts: 2,285
38 special vs. 40 cal

Ok, somebody school me on the 40 caliber round. What's the difference between a 38 special round and a 40 cal round? Don't just say "two". I've got a 38, I've got a 9mm, I've got a 45 auto; so what's so special about a 40 cal that someone had to invent it? What am I missing? How does it fit in? Where does it fit in between a 9mm, 38, and 45 auto?

armyRN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-29-2011, 10:47 PM   #2
scootz
Registered User
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: asheville, nc
Posts: 155
it fits between 40 and 45. Numerically speaking its 2 about 38 and 5 below 45.
__________________
THERE WAS 50 HOLES IN THE OL' TIN ROOF ME AND MY FAMILY WAS LIVIN' PROOF OF PEOPLE WHO FORGOT ABOUT POOR WHITE TRASH AND IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, I'LL KISS YOUR ***
scootz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-29-2011, 10:49 PM   #3
tripleplay103
Registered User
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 99
I believe the 40 cal was developed after a couple of cops and FBI agents were shot and killed in a shootout with suspects armed with mini 14's and ballistic vests. The officers were carrying 9mm and 38 specials which weren't strong enough to stop the suspects. So the FBI developed new more power bullets including the 40 and 10mm.
tripleplay103 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 12:06 AM   #4
5.9 ANDY
zj tractor
 
5.9 ANDY's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: southern afganistan
Posts: 5,228
the .40s&w is a child of the 10mm auto. the purpose of the 10mm was to provide lots of energy in a smaller container than the bulky .45
they did it, the 10mm dose have more energy than the .45, due to its slightly lighter bullets, but MUCH higher muzzel velocities. the 10mm is best compared to the .41 magnum in terms of energy.

however, this energy has a price. newton told us a long time ago that every action has a complete and opposite reaction... in the instance of firing a waepon that reaction is called recoil/muzzel blast.

some individuals cant handle heavy recoil and muzzel blast from handguns, so the 10mm was down sized to what we know today as the .40 S&w.
it is often considerd the middle ground between the .45 and the 9mm.

it is an exelent caliber.
__________________
hard working private first class in the United States Marine Corps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
It's threads like this that make me wonder why people lift there jeeps
its comments like this that make me wonder why some people are jerks.

build thread:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f197/...ndard-1056365/
5.9 ANDY is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 01:12 AM   #5
jumbojeepman
Registered User
1976 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,099
I have a .38 special revolver and a springfield XD-40 pistol. I find the .40 easier to shoot, it has less recoil and makes less noise. Basically, the bullets weigh slightly more than a .38 and travel faster, delivering more energy and thus doing more damage to what you are shooting (~450 ft-lbs for the 40 vs ~325 ft-lbs for the 38). They are smaller than .45, so the same size gun can hold more rounds than a typical .45, but holds less than a 9mm gun of the same size will hold. In short, it's a darned good compromise between damage inflicted and round capacity. Oh, and they are more than .02 more than a .38, as a .38 bullet is actually .357 in diameter (or 9mm.)
jumbojeepman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 08:06 AM   #6
Chris_
Registered User
2002 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 2,227
The .40 is a solution looking for a problem.
__________________
'02 TJ X Apex Edition
'00 XJ Sport
Chris_ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 09:32 AM   #7
airwolf9090
Registered User
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Clyo, Ga
Posts: 570
.38 special you can rock into the night while the other you can kill someone with??











__________________
1996 Jeep ZJ Orvis
airwolf9090 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 10:07 AM   #8
JeepinJarhead03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill / New Bern NC
Posts: 303
in agreeance with pretty much everything said above

in general off the shelf it does pan out .38spc / 9mm / .40 / .45 / 10mm

given the same grain bullet and powder load the 38spc and 9mm are nearly identical - one of the reasons why the .38spc slowed down in advancement versus the 9mm - given they were birthed at roughly the same time is that a majority of 38spc revolvers wouldn't withstand 9mm chamber pressures and the overall design that 9mm was pointed to auto's rather than revolvers

you can hand load a 38spc to stomp a 9mm, the 38spc with the longer brass has more capacity for powder by a hair, and capable of supporting a heavier projectile - that being said.. it goes back to most modern revolvers at the time wouldn't like those chamber pressures in part because they were still being based off of blackpowder style tooling - plus the additional recoil, and still a limited capacity versus frame/cyl size for rounds

so the 9mm took off - faster projectile, lighter.... projectile, more penetration less kinetics in general but still roughly equal to that of the 38spc with higher mag capacities but neither really have clear cut advantages in overall takedown throughout a wide spectrum of circumstanes

So either way you went with the .38spc / 9mm you were making trade-offs to gain what you wanted - trade-offs in combat will often bite you in a bad way

thus the 10mm/.40 development era mentioned above

you can akin the 10mm to a very punched up design of a .38spc , heavy round, bunch of powder and low mag caps and something in between the 9mm chain of thought, you get the .40 with slightly lower grain projectile with slightly less powder and substantially higher mag caps and a ton easier to handle with non-gorilla hands

the ballistics gel will tell you a lot about the characteristics of all 4 of these rounds, the .38spc generally being subsonic on impact (and typically subsonic from the breach - particularly during that era) does it's thing in a very straight forward manner

the 9mm while super sonic in general (during that era) from the breach to the target doesn't have quite enough kinetic due to low projectile mass to do what's visually seen as a kinetic flip or tumble or high fragmentation multi-channel path - best i can think of that has that characteristic in a low projectile mass is the 5.56 which has a slight tumble, and fragments

the .40 very similar in ballistics to the .45 with higher mag cap per weight and the 10mm just sort of went ridiculous with it

so basically everything from the .9mm up - generally speaking, is going to be more bearing on which one your hands and carry characteristics suit the best with the .38spc being put back into the mix if you're talking revolvers

entirely not saying you can't get a .38spc auto, because you can, but it does substantially limit your options in comparison

.38spc still stands as a backup in many service areas, but didn't make the 12" penetration cut the FBI set, the 9mm did, thus phased out for the most part

all that mush being said, there's a lot more to a loadout than velocity and grains - if you're running a snubbed revolver and plan on putting more than 1 or 2 rounds on target with much a degree of accuracy you probably won't run the hottest round you can stuff in it :P

so barrel length becomes fairly important, and having the rounds encased in the grip versus above your index finger gives the auto an inherent advantage along with the kinetic transfer to the slide which can either be seen as loss, or gain.. all on how you look at it really

Sorry.. I think I drank an extra cup of coffee or three..

(LOL'ed at the above post, didn't see that as I was posting -- I personally wouldn't want to be standing in front of any of them .. but the 10mm will kill you twice.. I mean.. you won't even see any virgins in heaven.. hell.. the virgins will probably just die from the concussion wave)

by the way, I was surprised no one brought up the 9mm short.. er.... .380 - because in technical aspects it goes .380(9mm short), 9mm(9x19lug) then switches to a side generation .38spc which was retooled from .38LC? but it just doesn't pan out that way - in europe the .38spc is a 9x29R
JeepinJarhead03 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 10:11 AM   #9
robplumm
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 841
10mm came along (45 is 11mm...) as said above. 10mm was very potent. To lower the oomph, they chopped the casing down. and the .40 was born.
robplumm is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 10:25 AM   #10
armyRN
Web Wheeler
 
armyRN's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Copperas Cove, Texas
Posts: 2,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by airwolf9090 View Post
.38 special you can rock into the night while the other you can kill someone with??


Yeah, I get it; there's just something about 70s/80s classic/southern rock. Marshal Tucker Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Molly Hatchet, Blackfoot, Allman Brothers, Hank Williams Jr., etc. Makes you want to plug in a cassette tape (remember those?) and just drive somewhere.

Thanks for all the 40 cal info so far.
armyRN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 10:28 AM   #11
JeepinJarhead03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill / New Bern NC
Posts: 303
I can't believe that went over my head..

and i like dvz lol
JeepinJarhead03 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 10:40 AM   #12
JeepinJarhead03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill / New Bern NC
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by robplumm View Post
10mm came along (45 is 11mm...) as said above. 10mm was very potent. To lower the oomph, they chopped the casing down. and the .40 was born.
pretty much

any of them, a .22 rifle and a 7.62 of just about any flavor and you're set for life .. well.. throw a shotgun in there somewhere between a 20g and a 12

if it's smaller than your dog.. get the .22
if it flys get the shotgun
if it's bigger than you get the rifle
if it potentially shoots back grab any of them I don't care just shoot first and most effectively
JeepinJarhead03 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 03:36 PM   #13
Dcomf
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramona, Ca
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbojeepman View Post
Oh, and they are more than .02 more than a .38, as a .38 bullet is actually .357 in diameter (or 9mm.)
If nits must be picked then the 9mm is .355 and the 38 is .357 for jacketed bullets and usually 358 for lead.
Dcomf is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
JeepinJarhead03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chapel Hill / New Bern NC
Posts: 303
yea, know several who use .38spc in their .357Mag revolvers as basically a low recoil ammo alternative

just don't go putting .357 Sig in it
JeepinJarhead03 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 08-30-2011, 05:02 PM   #15
CJ7-Tim
Real Jeeps have dents.
 
CJ7-Tim's Avatar
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: out in the garage - Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 22,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_ View Post
The .40 is a solution looking for a problem.
You are welcome to stand downrange and hold a paper target while I touch off 13 rounds in your direction. Then you can wisecrack about the .40 S&W all you want.

The .40 has been proven to be an accurate and effective round. Most Law Enforcement Agencies have switched to the .40 S&W from 9mm, or are in the process of switching. The reason why, is better performance.
__________________
.

Between 2009 when Obama took office, and 2013, median annual household incomes have fallen by more than $2,100.

Progressive Liberalism: Bringing you new Healthcare ideas so wonderful, they have to include mandatory participation ......

Originally Posted by Ronald W. Reagan: Government is not the solution to our problems; Government is the problem.
CJ7-Tim is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.