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Unread 06-04-2007, 09:33 AM   #16
Whybu1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schitzangiggles


This whole story shows just how asnine gun laws are. They are only followed by those not inclined to engage in the behavior that caused the law to be written in the first place. A criminal is going to get a gun from tha same place they get their illegal drugs.
Yeah you are so very correct. Heck the shooter in the Virginia Tech shooting certainly didn't go to a legal gun store and purchase the gun that killed all those folks because of badly written laws. Oh wait, that is exactly what he did. Thanks to some loopholes in the background check his time in a psych hospital didn't show up.

As for the whole "registering guns is stupid and illegal" argument I say grow up. Your car is registered, most likely your dog is registered and you don't complain about being hassled. But how dare we make a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide register a firearm? Yes criminals who want a gun can get one if they try hard enough but that is no reason to make it super easy for them. Make them work for it and increase the odds they get caught. Delay an angry person a few days so they cool off and rethink their intent so they decide not to buy a gun and shoot someone just out of anger, I can certainly wait a few days when making a legal purchase. And just in case you want to quote the 2nd ammendment make sure you read it carefully. Not even gonna go into the whole "who is a militia" argument, but note that it says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. It doesn't say that the government can keep a list of who has weapons. Heck if ya stop and think about it if the purpose of owning a weapon is to be part of the "militia" then the government certainly should have a list so they can call you if that "militia" is ever needed.

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Unread 06-04-2007, 01:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whybu1
Yeah you are so very correct. Heck the shooter in the Virginia Tech shooting certainly didn't go to a legal gun store and purchase the gun that killed all those folks because of badly written laws. Oh wait, that is exactly what he did. Thanks to some loopholes in the background check his time in a psych hospital didn't show up.

As for the whole "registering guns is stupid and illegal" argument I say grow up. Your car is registered, most likely your dog is registered and you don't complain about being hassled. But how dare we make a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide register a firearm? Yes criminals who want a gun can get one if they try hard enough but that is no reason to make it super easy for them. Make them work for it and increase the odds they get caught. Delay an angry person a few days so they cool off and rethink their intent so they decide not to buy a gun and shoot someone just out of anger, I can certainly wait a few days when making a legal purchase. And just in case you want to quote the 2nd ammendment make sure you read it carefully. Not even gonna go into the whole "who is a militia" argument, but note that it says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. It doesn't say that the government can keep a list of who has weapons. Heck if ya stop and think about it if the purpose of owning a weapon is to be part of the "militia" then the government certainly should have a list so they can call you if that "militia" is ever needed.
so let's take the guns out of the average citizens hand by making it such a hassle to get one that only the criminals that buy them on the black market can get them, guns will arrive in the U.S. illegally as it is far safr to transport weapons into the U.S. then drugs

the writers wrote the 2nd ammendment so that we as citizens could be a militia for or against the government, so that the government feared it's citizens instead of the current day citizens fearing the government, just look at the stats, as more gun laws have been made, crime has increased.

The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-00.html
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Unread 06-04-2007, 02:04 PM   #18
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um... so? A family heirloom like that should be acquired legally and thoroughly. Hopefully that kid gets to give it to his grandson.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 02:57 PM   #19
Whybu1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scs748
so let's take the guns out of the average citizens hand by making it such a hassle to get one that only the criminals that buy them on the black market can get them, guns will arrive in the U.S. illegally as it is far safr to transport weapons into the U.S. then drugs

the writers wrote the 2nd ammendment so that we as citizens could be a militia for or against the government, so that the government feared it's citizens instead of the current day citizens fearing the government, just look at the stats, as more gun laws have been made, crime has increased.

The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-00.html

I doubt the founding father were really lobbying for a militia that would work against their newly formed government.

I agree that there are many reasons to own a firearm, that concealed carry ability makes criminals think twice and can result in lower crime rates. There are studies that show the crime rate in the "wild west" was actually low partly because almost everyone was armed. However if you look at statistics, a person is more likely to die during a break-in in a house that has a firearm than one that does not. Either by forcing the armed intruder to shoot out of fear because they no longer have the upper hand (they are empowered and do not have to resort to pulling teh trigger if you are not armed. Not saying they won't but it is a harder choice for them than if you point a gun at them as well. Bad for you is that they are wide awake and alert while you are likely groggy from just being woken) or because the thief found the gun and used it against the real owner. If you notice, my post never said anything about taking firearms away from average, law abiding citizens. Heck there are 3 firearms in my house right now (one in the headboard with hollow points). All I said was that I see no "unconstitutionality" to having firearms registered. The process for registration should be made fairly simple and standardized while still throwing red flags as appropriate. There are some folks who should never, ever be given a firearm.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 09:22 PM   #20
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Ask the Jews about how gun regestration works like in Germany circa 1928 and again 1938. Save you some time with google, here is a link: http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm
Until 1943-44, the German government published its laws and regulations in the 'Reichsgesetzblatt,' roughly the equivalent of the U.S. Federal Register. Carefully shelved by law librarians, the 1938 issues of this German government publication had gathered a lot of dust. In the 'Reichsgesetzblatt' issue for the week of March 21, 1938, was the official text of the Weapons Law (March 18, 1938). It gave Hitler's Nazi party a stranglehold on the Germans, many of whom did not support the Nazis. We found that the Nazis did not invent "gun control" in Germany. The Nazis inherited gun control and then perfected it: they invented handgun control.
The Nazi Weapons Law of 1938 replaced a Law on Firearms and Ammunition of April 13, 1928. The 1928 law was enacted by a center-right, freely elected German government that wanted to curb "gang activity," violent street fights between Nazi party and Communist party thugs. All firearm owners and their firearms had to be registered. Sound familiar? "Gun control" did not save democracy in Germany. It helped to make sure that the toughest criminals, the Nazis, prevailed.
The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.
In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.
The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives. Given the parallels between the Nazi Weapons Law and the GCA '68, we concluded that the framers of the GCA '68 -- lacking any basis in American law to sharply cut back the civil rights of law abiding Americans -- drew on the Nazi Weapons Law of 1938.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/regis...istration.html
In 1941, U.S. Attorney General Robert Jackson called on Congress to enact national registration of all firearms.8 Given events in Europe, Congress recoiled, and legislation was introduced to protect the Second Amendment. Rep. Edwin Arthur Hall explained: "Before the advent of Hitler or Stalin, who took power from the German and Russian people, measures were thrust upon the free legislatures of those countries to deprive the people of the possession and use of firearms, so that they could not resist the encroachments of such diabolical and vitriolic state police organizations as the Gestapo, the Ogpu, and the Cheka."9
Rep. John W. Patman added: "The people have a right to keep arms; therefore, if we should have some Executive who attempted to set himself up as dictator or king, the people can organize themselves together and, with the arms and ammunition they have, they can properly protect themselves. . .

http://www.newswithviews.com/Turtel/joel31.htm
[font=Georgia]"On this glorious December evening, in the year 1933," he continued, "I, Herman Grundig, wish to thank these men seated besides me. Helmut Bunder and Franz Koenig helped lead the Weimar assembly's efforts in 1925 to pass the German National Gun Registration Act, then helped to pass the National Security Act of 1929. The 1929 Act required all Germans, and especially Jews, to turn in all guns or rifles they owned to the authorities. Through their efforts in the Weimar Assembly, these men helped remove all guns owned by German citizens and Jews, thereby helping us make a more secure Germany, a more peaceful Germany. They made it possible for German police and security forces to enforce the just laws of the nation without fear of attack by citizens or extremist groups who opposed these laws." ...
"Then there is America, the bastard offshoot of Britain, with the same stubborn anti-government tradition as the British, but even worse. The Americans actually allow their citizens to own guns. Can you imagine that? That so-called "right" is even written into the Second Amendment of their despicable Bill of Rights. We understand that their courts and legislators are chipping away at this "right to bear arms," as the American fools call it, but it will take another sixty years before their legislators finally confiscate all arms in America. So right now, America will be our most dangerous enemy."


The militia made of every citizen was to prevent the tyranny that they had fought so hard against from infecting the new American government. You should study your American history better/more objectively. They rightly feared that some might become intoxicated with power and seek to subjegate the citizens of this country by removing the ability of the people to rise up with arms against the government that was no longer listening to the will of those that "lent" the power to it.

The first 10 Amendments are all dealing with personal/individual liberties except for the second amendment? That assumption strains credibility and common sense.
I could go on, but you seem to have already made up your mind. FWIW, next time you are in England or Australia, ask them how their gun control/confiscation is working out.
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