Is that the mantra you say to yourself every day before going to bed?
Sounds to me the only person you're really trying to pursuade here is yourself.
Here's a little info.
I would not be driving a Jeep if it wasnt a diesel.
The fact that Jeep is a Chrysler product is something i try to suppress every time i remember it.
Originally Posted by 10Xk
Key word "Tuned form". Its tough playing catch up! Especially when it's being compared to a stock motor which costs less!
Let's do some simple math...
$3700 CRD upgrade
.13 cents workaround to keep it running instead of spending thousands to properly fix swirl motor (if you got if fixed properly like it was ment to operate add $2-3k. WOW!!!!)
$685 for a tuner
Realizing you just achieved Hemi performance= PRICELESS (especially when they where giving Hemi upgrades for FREE at certain times)!
So now that it's on par with a 5.7l how long will it take to recouped that $4385.13 initial cost in fuel saving????
I have been looking at the Grand Cherokee with a CRD myself as I am a very happy owner of a 2004 Golf TDI that except for scheduled maintenance has been one of the most reliable vehicles I have owned. I love the added torque and economy of the diesel motor and ability for my small hatchback to pull ATV trailers with little loss of economy and power. That being said there are disadvantages to the diesel powerplant I have experienced as my driving chores have changed since 2004. I used to drive over 40 miles each way to work which made the 48 mpg Golf a perfect car for my requirements but since then I now have a short, 12-mile drive to work and since it takes about half of that trip to warm up my mileage is now more like 30 mpg in the winter. (It's not very efficient until it gets to operating temperature). Another thing as mentioned previously is the price difference in fuel in Winter time. Currently here in Ohio Diesel is almost $1 more per gallon than gasoline making the gas version of my car a better choice as far as economy. Motor repairs are more expensive but thanks to VW forums like this one for Jeep it's not too bad and most projects I can do myself. Without a helpful forum like this I would not recommend a diesel to anyone who likes to fix their own vehicles as it can be intimidating at first. While my opinion is VW based I believe some of the same issues relate due to the diesel motor itself and the pros and cons of the powerplant.
I guess it really boils down to where you live and how you will use it? If you pull trailers, log in a lot of long-distance trips a diesel is a great choice and you will love it but if you use it for many short trips and don't really need towing capability then I think a gas version would be a better choice? Myself, I want a vacation vehicle to tow my quads to the dunes, drive the same vehicle into the dunes, or something for long drives with family. IN this case the diesel is definitely something I am interested in and many of the nagging "problems" are all models not just the diesels.
BTW, one thing I cannot compare is the warm-up time for the CRD compared to my Golf TDI. My VW will actually cool off when idling during below freezing weather. (Yes my thermostat is fine) All of them are that way as their motors produce less internal heat and the only way to warm up the motor is to drive it. Are the CRD's the same way?
Yes the engine ran cleaner on the outside so guess where all the crap went? Yes inside! Hence cars getting carboned up intakes, egr valves and engines. Even catalytic converters introduced decades ago make your car run less efficiently.
If an engine truly has to destroy itself from the inside in order to operate politely in the modern world, then its time has passed and a total re-think is in order. I'm not saying that this is necessarily true for the 3.0 CRD, but you are implying that it is when you advocate the defeat or removal of some (all?) of its emission equipment in order to make it reliably run correctly.
As to catalytic converters, the early pellet-based converters were indeed fairly restrictive, but keep in mind that the emission controls on engines at that time were so rudimentary that they wouldn't have run well even without those early converters. Remember fuel-feedback carburetors? Egads, was that ever the dark ages or what? Modern monolithic converters are less restrictive and more efficient, and combined with ECM-controlled injection, timing, etc., cause almost no lost hp at all on a stock vehicle. The catalytic converter may only have cleaned up the exhaust gasses, but the unleaded gas and tighter fuel/air ratios required by the converter have contributed to cleaning up the inside of the engine by making life a good deal easier on the oil (less dilution, deposits, etc.). I'm referring here to modern gassers, of course. Diesels appear to be lagging behind a bit in this regard, and I'm fearful that the manufacturers are being needlessly distracted from diesel emission control development by their current hybrid PR scam. Hopefully in spite of this, they'll be able to solve the current issues with internal diesel deposit/contamination...
BTW, one thing I cannot compare is the warm-up time for the CRD compared to my Golf TDI. My VW will actually cool off when idling during below freezing weather. (Yes my thermostat is fine) All of them are that way as their motors produce less internal heat and the only way to warm up the motor is to drive it. Are the CRD's the same way?[/QUOTE]
No the CRD warms up much faster than a TDI and remains warm. Try blocking your radiator for winter. I used to fully block mine on my TDI's and I block 50% or so on the Jeep.
2007 WK CRD QDII, GDE HOT tune. 275/55/18'' on Sahara's, SRT8 suspension.
2000 Jetta TDI (hers)
2006 Liberty CRD (sold)
3 VW TDI's (sold)
Yeah, I have blocked it and it does make a difference in staying warm but it didn't make a noticeable difference for initial warm-up. The only time it is a pain is when we get an ice storm and I would like heat to melt the ice enough to get a scraper started. ;-)
I purchased one in the teeth of the recession 1/09. Ordered it from the dealer in Dundalk, told it would take three months, it was ready in 4 weeks. I have posted on this forum the only gremlin the thing has manifested, a mystery wire routing issue that caused the injection system to stop at high speed. The dealer and manufacturer had no clue and I wasted $$$$, but a poster on this forum did. The Jeep has been oil changes belts, brakes and tires for 130k miles other than that. It tows my 6ooolb worldcat better forward than my 2011 hemi grand cherokee, but not as stable due to the lack of load leveling. Good luck finding one around us, as I have never seen one in central MD. There was one for sale in Easton, MD last fall and i almost bought it just to keep for this one wears out. You will get 22-25 mpg on the Balt beltway commute and slightly better on highway travel.
I have a 05 kj crd for two years now and all i have done is the timing belt and changed an inter cooler pipe cost me close to $3500, keep in mind this is at the dealer were work is guaranteed but not always the best. Compared to the people bashing the kjs crd they took it to a corner garage and the mechanic had never seen that because they are rare the way diesel works is its a bit more expensive when it comes to repairs but it will last longer if your using OEM pieces and getting it done right ! the first time. Also when your on the trails you have plenty more fuel and low end torque then the most of the other gassers. I convinced my dad to buy a 08 wk limited S crd now hes always had a HEMI or a v8 so for him getting a v6 wasn't really something he was looking forward to after his first trip with the truck he said best buy in his whole jeep owning experience and hes had quite a few (2cjs,1yj,1tj,1xj,3zjs,2wks) at then end of the day hes done over 100,000 kilometers in a year and a half and he hasn't visited a garage since purchase.