Is it worth getting a diesel? - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WK Grand Cherokee & XK Commander Forum > Is it worth getting a diesel?

Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineGrizzly Lockers available at Rockridge4wd.comThe ULTIMATE "Selectable" Locker System! Brough

Reply
Unread 02-05-2014, 04:56 AM   #46
RMC_xj
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NS
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dzlwk View Post
European versions of this engine don't/didn't utilize the same intake system that's giving many of us fits in the U.S.

A couple of years ago, we took the CRD out to Yellowstone Park. We filled the tank right outside the park (far cheaper!) before we drove in. We were in the park for a week, driving everywhere. Our lodge was at the lowest altitude (7000 feet) and the highest spots IIRC were at about 11,000 feet. The week comprised climbing mountains, coasting back down them, some flat running, and quite a bit of stand-still idling (waiting for buffalo, staying warm, etc.). When we filled up again at the same station outside the park, I crunched the numbers and found that the car had given over 28mpg. And, mind you, it never once felt as though it was missing any power at all. There were people there with gasser SUVs complaining about loss of power going up those grades, but we never felt any such thing...
The WH/XH (export CRD) uses the same intake system as domestic WK/XK. The export CRDs do not come with DPF, which is a large factor in engine longevity. It's also the difference between a clean tailpipe which you described, and a dirty/sooty one, like what many JF users have.

I agree, zero loss of torque at altitude. Kinda nice, really.

__________________
07 WK CRD | QD2 | GDE ECO - DPF | OME HD | Moabs & Duratracs
98 XJ | FbG | Moabs & Duratracs
96 XJ
RMC_xj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-05-2014, 09:52 AM   #47
1dzlwk
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: , S.E. Wisconsin
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dzlwk View Post
...European versions of this engine don't/didn't utilize the same intake system that's giving many of us fits in the U.S...
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_2k View Post
er no its the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMC_xj View Post
The WH/XH (export CRD) uses the same intake system as domestic WK/XK...
Sorry guys, I'm just (foolishly?) going by what the diesel techs at two different dealerships have told me. If I'm truly wrong about this, please forgive me. The last guy I talked to explained it this way: somewhere back around '09, the E.U. changed their diesel emission requirements to bring them more in line with what were, at that time, the more restrictive U.S. requirements. According to him, as of those ~'09 regulation changes, engines for Europe and the U.S. can be mechanically more or less identical...that is, the regulations are now similar enough that mere software changes can pretty much cover the differences. He claimed that, before this ~'09 regulation change, the U.S. and E.U. engines (specifically the intake systems) were physically different. He didn't explain exactly how they were different, but the implication was that the E.U. engines of that period did not have the same swirl motor/intake flap setup that we're cursed with. That's all I know on the similarity issue...
__________________
____
Bob
1dzlwk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-05-2014, 10:36 AM   #48
94jeepman
Jager93
 
94jeepman's Avatar
2005 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: rapid city, south dakota
Posts: 683
I kind of want to get a crd but don't want to start over or swap all my stuff. With wouldn't be hard tho hardest thing would be my tires and lift.
__________________
KHAKI MEMBER #59


The WK mods: SC flashpaq 3870, flow master super 40, 3.5" X Factor leveling kit, 33" M/T baja claws, 17" pro comp wheels, one 12 inch subwoofer, rugged ridge tailight gaurds, rola rack with 18" extension
94jeepman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-05-2014, 11:13 AM   #49
1dzlwk
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: , S.E. Wisconsin
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dzlwk View Post
As the original owner of an '07 CRD WK, I'd have to say...definitely not! I just collected my CRD from the dealer after its second round of swirl motor/flap repair in the last year, and on the way home the check engine light came on again...
Fair disclosure update:

As of early February, 2014, my engine seems to be running perfectly. My wife just finished a 250-mile round trip with it and she said it ran great, while getting ~26 mpg...quite good considering the weather and her driving (hint: she's not slow). The above-mentioned CEL was not an engine problem after all...it was yet another new problem: the shift mechanism and shift controller were defective and both were replaced...and yes, the car had shifted oddly and/or refused to shift at all from time to time, but it was just another intermittent problem that I assumed would never be corrected. Thank providence that it actually finally failed completely, so they could find it. The tech told me that the shift mechanism all by itself was worth about $1300. He didn't say how much the electronic shift controller was worth, but it probably wasn't cheap, either. Again, this repair was also taken care of under my extended warranty, which has just under five months remaining on it (tic-tic-tic!). So far, the warranty has paid for itself close to three times over, and we're probably not done yet. While the rear drive shaft was just replaced as we attempt to chase down the root cause of a horrific drive train vibration issue (common to many WKs), the front drive shaft has not, and the vibration is still present occasionally. I haven't even bothered complaining to the dealer about the seat/radio/mirror memory that erases itself every several months, or the copious amounts of liquid water that will spill out of the headliner if you make the mistake of leaving the vent-free sun shade closed for too long during the winter (condensation buildup), though I did tell them about the HVAC's outer door (the one near the under-hood ventilation filter) failing to close all the way...which allows a lot of outside air to leak in, summer and winter, whether you want outside air or not. The result is that the AC can't keep up in hot humid weather because there's no effective recirculate function, and the heater sometimes has trouble keeping up in really cold weather. Their solution to this: test HVAC motor functions (motor functions test normal, so no problem found)!

Look, I regret if all this is coming off like sour grapes. It is obviously based just on my own personal experience with my owned-from-new CRD WK of 77,000 miles. However, I do also have to say that the other two WKs that I have personal knowledge of, while not CRDs, have also been quite problematic/expensive propositions as neither had an extended warranty. The OP is free to do as he chooses, and good luck to him either way. I just hope you can understand why I, personally, can't recommend the car to him...
__________________
____
Bob
1dzlwk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-05-2014, 10:12 PM   #50
Drudgery1971
Member
 
Drudgery1971's Avatar
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 299
The discussion is silly now overall (the WK diesel is less than 2% of all people owning a WK in US) so any opinions of the CRD should only be valid if said person owns one. I have ZERO mods other than deleting swirl motor with a $.13 cent resistor and 105k miles later started today at 15 F after 4 days at airport - no block heater attached and 4 year old battery. Then got 24.3 MPG highway home with a 4" thick ice sheet on the lid. At the end of the day...... buy what you want and enjoy it- they are all Jeeps.
__________________
2007 WK Limited 3.0 CRD - Stock (Mine)
2010 XK Sport 5.7 Hemi - Stock (Wife)
Drudgery1971 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-06-2014, 02:58 PM   #51
chrali
Registered User
2006 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dzlwk View Post
I don't agree at all. This was true maybe through the very early 90s; after that, all the things that comprise modern emissions equipment (electronic ignitions/injection, etc.) have demonstrably helped engines to run better/cleaner, and to last longer ...
Yes the engine ran cleaner on the outside so guess where all the crap went? Yes inside! Hence cars getting carboned up intakes, egr valves and engines. Even catalytic converters introduced decades ago make your car run less efficiently.
__________________
*********************************************
Encourage alternative fuels - Use as much petrol as you can!
*********************************************
chrali is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-06-2014, 03:02 PM   #52
chrali
Registered User
2006 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMC_xj View Post

The WH/XH (export CRD) uses the same intake system as domestic WK/XK. The export CRDs do not come with DPF, which is a large factor in engine longevity. It's also the difference between a clean tailpipe which you described, and a dirty/sooty one, like what many JF users have.

I agree, zero loss of torque at altitude. Kinda nice, really.
My 2006 uk xh has a dpf but I don't think the wh did.
__________________
*********************************************
Encourage alternative fuels - Use as much petrol as you can!
*********************************************
chrali is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-06-2014, 11:43 PM   #53
manny31
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: miami
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaje View Post
The CRD is an "acquired taste" for many and the owners have to be more educated of the vehicle they drive as they are different and require more attention.

I never try to do the equation between a diesel and gasser by their EPA rating as it more often than not overstates a gasser's mpg as their test has nothing to do with real world (it's done on a dyno in a lab and takes only account for aero by adding "friction" to the dyno wheel). That means the vehicle can lug up to speed at low RPMs (think of the many Honda, Hyundai, Ford owners who sued the companies b/c real world mpg would not even come close to the sticker mpg). On the flip side diesels often have lower EPA ratings that you get in real world often because the engine is not worn in yet and by 20k miles their efficiency has significantly improved (by the tune of 1-2 mpg). Plus with a diesel real world driving doesn't affect its rating as much as they can lug under power and not use high rpms to get moving.

I do see your point and its valid. If you don't haul or tow and want to save money you can save quite a bit by getting (and I'm drawing this logic to the WK2) a v6 and it'll do everything you need and more (if you want to get a diesel you will find it hard to make up that delta versus the v6 as its substantially cheaper and you have to at least get a Limited to even get the diesel and it's $4,500 extra). Also the v6 is slightly faster to 60 mpg than the diesel but sprint acceleration has never been a strong suit of any diesel vehicle. Where the diesel makes sense is when you only compare it to the Hemi where it costs only $500 - $2,500 more (depending on options as the diesel includes several forced options such as the lux package on the 4x4 limited where you can get a Hemi without it).

Just don't forget in your evaluation that in 3-5 years you may not want to keep it and as the market demands - a diesel will have a higher resale value so you'll get more for your trade or private sale and more often than not recoup your higher upfront investment (all the while saving at the pump and to me the most important not having to visit the gas station as often) - I'm not much of a shopper for lottery tickets, donuts, 64 oz sodas, or energy drinks.

Something fun: Citroen AX 1.4 diesel (52 hp) doing sub 10 mins at Nordschliefe
The V6 is faster than the Diesel to 60. I DONT THINK SO. Something must be wrong with yours. I can take a hemi to 60 with air on and bikes on the rack.
__________________
08 CRD elephant mode, kidney empty. GDE eco tune, DPF gutted, 20' SRTs 265 and 295 stock height, SRT front bumper
manny31 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 07:55 AM   #54
james_2k
Registered User
2009 WK 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Aberfoyle, Stirlingshire
Posts: 544
i hope he doesnt mean in the wk, because if so yeah.. hes very very wrong haha
james_2k is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 08:29 AM   #55
jaje
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by manny31 View Post
The V6 is faster than the Diesel to 60. I DONT THINK SO. Something must be wrong with yours. I can take a hemi to 60 with air on and bikes on the rack.
Was talking about the WK2 Ecodiesel versus the Pentastar.
__________________
'14 WK2 EcoDiesel Limited
'13 Subaru BRZ
#74 Exocet - NASA ST3 / E0
jaje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 10:43 AM   #56
ZF1FR
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Savigny-sur-Orge, France
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMC_xj View Post
The WH/XH (export CRD) uses the same intake system as domestic WK/XK. The export CRDs do not come with DPF, which is a large factor in engine longevity. It's also the difference between a clean tailpipe which you described, and a dirty/sooty one, like what many JF users have.

I agree, zero loss of torque at altitude. Kinda nice, really.
My WH CRD, does not have a DPF. However that's because it's a 2005. Later they fitted DPF maybe 2007 or 2009.
US and particularly Cali are more restringent on emissions, but not that much. On some vehicles it leads to DPF and SCR systems.
But here in Europe in several countries have to pay a CO2 tax directly related to fuel consumption. That's why we have more "efficient" but pricier and more complex engines making them less reliable.

You don't feel loss torque may be because you have a huge margin over full load torque?
Atmospheric engines suffers from low atm pressure -> low air density wheras turbo engines could suffer from turbo spooling too fast. Most of the times, the manufacturers derate performance with altitude.
Maybe MB was large on it's turbo max speed.
ZF1FR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 10:51 AM   #57
james_2k
Registered User
2009 WK 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Aberfoyle, Stirlingshire
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaje View Post
Was talking about the WK2 Ecodiesel versus the Pentastar.
soo.. pointless in a way. he was asking about the wk. what specs are you looking at by the way, it doesnt look like the crd is slower than the 3.7 in the wk2 either? bearing in mind there are two diesel engines for the wk2. the slower one is 10.2 secs and the faster one 8.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZF1FR View Post
My WH CRD, does not have a DPF. However that's because it's a 2005. Later they fitted DPF maybe 2007 or 2009.
US and particularly Cali are more restringent on emissions, but not that much. On some vehicles it leads to DPF and SCR systems.
But here in Europe in several countries have to pay a CO2 tax directly related to fuel consumption. That's why we have more "efficient" but pricier and more complex engines making them less reliable.

You don't feel loss torque may be because you have a huge margin over full load torque?
Atmospheric engines suffers from low atm pressure -> low air density wheras turbo engines could suffer from turbo spooling too fast. Most of the times, the manufacturers derate performance with altitude.
Maybe MB was large on it's turbo max speed.
my 2009 doesnt have a dpf. uk spec car.

with variable vanes / wastegate, boost should be constant up to a point. similar to aircraft with turbo chargers, boost is constant to a given altitude and then tails off.
james_2k is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 11:11 AM   #58
ZF1FR
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Savigny-sur-Orge, France
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_2k View Post
with variable vanes / wastegate, boost should be constant up to a point. similar to aircraft with turbo chargers, boost is constant to a given altitude and then tails off.
Did I say different?
ZF1FR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 11:23 AM   #59
james_2k
Registered User
2009 WK 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Aberfoyle, Stirlingshire
Posts: 544
to a point.
james_2k is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2014, 01:57 PM   #60
jjt250
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 711
I was gonna say, a WK V6 is definitely not faster. Mine is faster than my buddy's 4.7 by a good margin. Never raced a hemi though. The Pentastar with the 8 speed tranny in the WK2 is probably faster however.
__________________
2007 Grand Cherokee Limited | QDII | 3.0L Diesel | S4xC Shackles Mounts | Goodyear Duratracs
Bilstein HD Front/Rear | Rusty's 1/2" Strut Spacer | Hemi XK Front/Rear Coils | HID Projectors
jjt250 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
advice , diesel , wk

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.