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Unread 01-26-2014, 03:37 PM   #1
smk
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Is it worth getting a diesel?

I'm looking to get a WK and I'm curious about going the diesel route. My goal for the vehicle is to make it a daily driver that I can still take on the trails. Nothing too crazy, but adding a winch, lift, and tires is definitely in the plans.

I like the idea of getting better mileage and torque from a diesel, but I'm wondering how expensive these are to repair. I'm looking at '07 or '08 vehicle. A friend of mine had the diesel Liberty and ultimately got rid of it because how expensive it was to repair. He said that there were so few made that the parts were crazy expensive when they could even find them.

So maybe it's better to go for the v6 or v8 and just deal with the mileage penalty.

I'd appreciate any advice and excuse me if this question has been asked a million times before, I just joined this forum.

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Unread 01-26-2014, 04:01 PM   #2
james_2k
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some will say yes, some will say no.

if you were in the uk i would definately say yes, as CRDs are more common than the Vx models.

personally i like it
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Unread 01-26-2014, 04:08 PM   #3
jaje
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Search for CRD FAQ and read up on the diesel WKs. They are very reliable but there are known issues. If you educate yourself you'll be ok. The big draw from them is the huge difference in MPG and being able to go up to 500 miles on a tank if you do a lot of highway driving.
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Unread 01-26-2014, 04:15 PM   #4
caddydaddy
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I had the same questions and decided to buy a '07 Diesel about 3 weeks ago. True, they were only an option for 2 years in the US, but I decided that since this engine/trans combo has been used in hundreds of thousands other Mercedes vehicles, parts and repair should not be too hard.
I think the diesel is a great alternative to the Hemi. It has the same towing power, but gets several MPG better fuel mileage!
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Unread 01-26-2014, 04:44 PM   #5
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Plus 1 on the diesel....
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Unread 01-26-2014, 05:07 PM   #6
Retireat50
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I had a diesel VW Jetta for almost 11 years (just sold it last month) and was really interested in the CRD when I went looking for a GC a year and a half ago. The number on the used market were few and far between unless I wanted to buy one long distance.

In the end, I went with a Hemi. They were readily available and I was able to get a 2008 Limited in mint condition with a great service record. It's not my daily driver and I only drive about 9000 miles a year in it. If I drove it more miles I might have waited a while longer to try and find a diesel in my area.

Good luck with your search!
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Unread 01-26-2014, 05:11 PM   #7
smk
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Thanks for the info - I'll do some more digging on the forum for diesel info, I'm leaning that way but I want to know what I'm getting myself in for.
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Unread 01-26-2014, 11:51 PM   #8
james_2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retireat50 View Post
I had a diesel VW Jetta for almost 11 years (just sold it last month) and was really interested in the CRD when I went looking for a GC a year and a half ago. The number on the used market were few and far between unless I wanted to buy one long distance.

In the end, I went with a Hemi. They were readily available and I was able to get a 2008 Limited in mint condition with a great service record. It's not my daily driver and I only drive about 9000 miles a year in it. If I drove it more miles I might have waited a while longer to try and find a diesel in my area.

Good luck with your search!
you drive more miles in your non daily driver than i do in my actual daily driver! (CRD)

its a nice engine OP, at least try a test drive, if the pedal feels slightly mushy off the line compared to the gas versions then that can be fixed with a tune.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 09:17 AM   #9
1dzlwk
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Is it worth getting a diesel?

As the original owner of an '07 CRD WK, I'd have to say...definitely not! I just collected my CRD from the dealer after its second round of swirl motor/flap repair in the last year, and on the way home the check engine light came on again. Yes, the diesel will deliver HEMI grunt with better-than-6-cylinder fuel economy, but the added hassle (and cost) of maintenance, to me, just are not worth it...and that's assuming that you are lucky enough to get one that has no mechanical troubles. If you do a lot of research on here you'll find that, for a vehicle that only comprised 3% of WK production in '07, the CRD exhibits far more than its share of engine-related problems. I can't help that the engine is "a Mercedes" (woohoo). A garage queen is still a garage queen, and if you have to remove or bypass equipment that Mercedes or anyone else installs on/in an engine in order to get it to run reliably, then that engine is not reliable, period. I suppose if you enjoy tinkering and trying to solve problems with your engines, then you might not mind dealing with this combination...but me, I'm sick to death of this crap and when the vehicle is gone I'll be thrilled.

That's just the CRD part of the WK equation. As for the rest of the vehicle...it is now obvious that the WK was an under-developed design that went into production before it was ready for public consumption and, once in production, development stopped. My vehicle has had numerous electrical and HVAC issues and, along with tons of other owners on here, mine has had (nearly since day one) an unresolved ongoing intermittent severe drive line vibration. Drive train vibration issues are quite common in WKs, regardless of which engines are installed. Most folks have replaced (in many cases multiple times) drive shafts/u-joints in attempts to solve this problem, usually with limited or no success. Changing out my rear drive shaft only altered slightly the circumstances under which the vibration manifests itself. The worn u-joints that many have believed to be the problem are beginning to appear to be just a symptom that is caused by the actual problem(s?) farther upstream somewhere in the drive train...possibly a defective coupling between the transmission and the transfer case, etc. Nobody outside of Jeep appears to know for sure, and if Jeep knows they're not saying, they're just leaving us all to twist in the wind.

While there must be owners of CRD WKs out there who've had few (or even no) problems, I'd bet good money that most of them are unaware of just how lucky they are. It's very difficult to recommend a vehicle with this much baggage to anyone, so I'd have to say...choose a different vehicle. Obviously, JMO...YMMV
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Unread 01-27-2014, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dzlwk
As the original owner of an '07 CRD WK, I'd have to say...definitely not! I just collected my CRD from the dealer after its second round of swirl motor/flap repair in the last year, and on the way home the check engine light came on again. Yes, the diesel will deliver HEMI grunt with better-than-6-cylinder fuel economy, but the added hassle (and cost) of maintenance, to me, just are not worth it...and that's assuming that you are lucky enough to get one that has no mechanical troubles. If you do a lot of research on here you'll find that, for a vehicle that only comprised 3% of WK production in '07, the CRD exhibits far more than its share of engine-related problems. I can't help that the engine is "a Mercedes" (woohoo). A garage queen is still a garage queen, and if you have to remove or bypass equipment that Mercedes or anyone else installs on/in an engine in order to get it to run reliably, then that engine is not reliable, period. I suppose if you enjoy tinkering and trying to solve problems with your engines, then you might not mind dealing with this combination...but me, I'm sick to death of this crap and when the vehicle is gone I'll be thrilled. That's just the CRD part of the WK equation. As for the rest of the vehicle...it is now obvious that the WK was an under-developed design that went into production before it was ready for public consumption and, once in production, development stopped. My vehicle has had numerous electrical and HVAC issues and, along with tons of other owners on here, mine has had (nearly since day one) an unresolved ongoing intermittent severe drive line vibration. Drive train vibration issues are quite common in WKs, regardless of which engines are installed. Most folks have replaced (in many cases multiple times) drive shafts/u-joints in attempts to solve this problem, usually with limited or no success. Changing out my rear drive shaft only altered slightly the circumstances under which the vibration manifests itself. The worn u-joints that many have believed to be the problem are beginning to appear to be just a symptom that is caused by the actual problem(s?) farther upstream somewhere in the drive train...possibly a defective coupling between the transmission and the transfer case, etc. Nobody outside of Jeep appears to know for sure, and if Jeep knows they're not saying, they're just leaving us all to twist in the wind. While there must be owners of CRD WKs out there who've had few (or even no) problems, I'd bet good money that most of them are unaware of just how lucky they are. It's very difficult to recommend a vehicle with this much baggage to anyone, so I'd have to say...choose a different vehicle. Obviously, JMO...YMMV
Have you implemented the known fixes of the swirl motors issues? We have made it very clear that a Jeep dealer and a Swirl Motor repair do not mix..ever. Seems you have only one issues with the CRD engine and it is the one issue that everyone knows about.

Why not exercise your rights and trade or sell the CRD?

There are a handful of people on here who love to tinker with their CRD. You will notice that the same group of people generally post and discuss their CRD.

Not sure what state you are in, but seems to me you have a Lemon Law case.....
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Unread 01-27-2014, 10:44 AM   #11
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Given everything stays the same as far as costs and repairs between a gas or Diesel are concerned, at 50 cents more for a gallon of diesel (in my area at least ), is it worth it ? I know brand new Diesel trucks are more expensive the gas trucks so I was wondering at 50 cents more for diesel, how long does it take to make up for the extra cost of a diesel if you drive an average amount every year. I don't know very much about Diesels as I have never owned one but I have some friends that own them and It seems many of them are always working on them. Maybe it's just the brand ? I always thought these things were supposed to run forever.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 11:26 AM   #12
jaje
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Originally Posted by dahreno View Post
Given everything stays the same as far as costs and repairs between a gas or Diesel are concerned, at 50 cents more for a gallon of diesel (in my area at least ), is it worth it ? I know brand new Diesel trucks are more expensive the gas trucks so I was wondering at 50 cents more for diesel, how long does it take to make up for the extra cost of a diesel if you drive an average amount every year. I don't know very much about Diesels as I have never owned one but I have some friends that own them and It seems many of them are always working on them. Maybe it's just the brand ? I always thought these things were supposed to run forever.
Research, research, research. This question comes up a lot so there's 100s of posts that ask this same question. In fact so many people are erroneous on their info that I've included it in my WK CRD FAQ that has links to actual factual info and not forum posts by anonymous people. One study does the TCO of gas and diesel vehicles. In essence, you pay more up front in the purchase but fuelly and other mpg calculation show that the CRD gets significantly better than EPA mileage with no modifications and the Hemi almost never gets EPA without modifications and careful driving. Also those who are anti diesel gloss over the fact that if you want to trade up or sell the diesel will have much higher resale value to about what you paid in the difference up front. Gas fluctuates a lot where diesel is more stable and in winter diesel goes up some b/c it's a heating oil substitute but in the summer the delta is much lower as gas prices go up due to much more travel in the warmer months and diesel is not needed for heating oil so it doesn't go up much. In fact around May-June diesel may be only 10 cents more and in cases where I live lower than the regular unleaded (I wish I could buy 100 gallon barrel and fill it up at home but HOA doesn't allow it)
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Unread 01-27-2014, 01:06 PM   #13
chrali
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Originally Posted by 1dzlwk View Post
If you do a lot of research on here you'll find that, for a vehicle that only comprised 3% of WK production in '07, the CRD exhibits far more than its share of engine-related problems.
1dzlwk you sound like you've a crap WK, so I sympathise, but there always some crap vehicles. Pick ANY vehicle that you want instead and you'll find others on those forums with their own lemon. As you say lots of your problems are about the WK irrespective of engine although emissions equipment is messing up pretty much all modern motors and will continue to do so. You also seem to have had a rubbish dealer who no doubt tucked you up for the swirl job.

I don't know if the 3% of WK production includes Europe, but you must surely know that literally hundreds of thousands of vehicles use that engine, and the vast majority of WH/XH in Europe are CRD.

For myself, I am the 3rd owner of my XH, and the only mechanical failure I had was EGR and I thrash my CRD like a peasant treats a donkey. A Hemi wouldn't be suitable in the UK, as fuel is over $10 a gallon here.

OP, IMHO you live a a country with cheap juice, and so enjoy and get the Hemi as you're mileage is still low and it'll be cheaper to buy, but get what you want, otherwise you'll never be happy!
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Unread 01-27-2014, 01:40 PM   #14
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"I like the idea of getting better mileage and torque from a diesel, but I'm wondering how expensive these are to repair. I'm looking at '07 or '08 vehicle. A friend of mine had the diesel Liberty and ultimately got rid of it because how expensive it was to repair. He said that there were so few made that the parts were crazy expensive when they could even find them."

In terms of how expensive to repair.... it could be crazy high if something really goes sideways but could happened with any Jeep. The maintenance is higher if you don't do it yourself..... an oil change at dealer is something like $120 and why many CRD owners do it themselves. But you can go between 6250-12500 miles per. As far as the Liberty CRD and parts availability, I had one too before my current WK CRD and they are night and day. On parts - the liberty CRD engine to my knowledge wasnt in any other US based vehicles at the time where the WK 3.0 is in the Sprinters in the US as well as all over EU. Good luck in your comparisons and decisions. It's a tough one.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 09:52 AM   #15
smk
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So it seems that it's 7 to 2 in favor of the diesel so far.

I'm willing to tinker with the engine but I haven't done much of that in the past. Is this a good engine to learn on or is it just too complicated?

I've only seen a few CRDs for sale, so if I go this route I guess I'll be looking for a long while.

Thanks again for all the advice.
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