[magellan]

I'm finally filling with my first tank of B20 today.
I've been running B5 since new and recently got my 3rd oil analysis completed and did my first oil change.

I'm a bit over 3,500 miles right now. I wanted to get a baseline for the oil analysis before going with a higher blend.

I think it would be useful if those of us running biodiesel post our experiences with it.

I think we should post our mileage, blend, and how long we've been using it, as well as any problems we've had.

This would be helpful for those considering using biodiesel.

[Swayse]

We don't have any biodiesel nearby. But I got to try some in Durango, CO. I tried the B20 blend, Jeep ran quieter, smoother, and I'm pretty sure it picked up a little MPG.

Lots of people confuse Biodiesel with WVO, not the same.

[no-blue-screen]

Just a word of caution....Jeep only allows a max of B5 or 5% bio. Anything over that and you have no warranty on the fuel system. Here is a thread that shows someone who was running bio....even though bio may not have caused his issue, the dealer caught the bio in there and Chrysler refused to cover anything under warranty.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/07-cherokee-diesel-3-0-non-start-issue-588449/

There is also an issue with oil dilution when using bio in this vehicle. This is due to the fact they post-injection is used to regenerate the DPF. Diesel fuel vaporizes during the post injection but due to its higher boil point, biodiesel remains and gets into the oil. Not trying to stear people away from using bio, but just trying to warn about possible issues.

[Formula280ss]

Hello,

First thanks to everyone for all of the posts on the CRD. I learned at lot from all of you. We just got our new 07 two days ago.

B5 may be the max allowed under warranty, however at both of the diesel stations near me one has B11 and other station has diesel that varies from B5 to B20.

What is the average Joe to do when blends of Bio of greater than B5 are the only possible options?

I have been running Bio in my Duramax and the truck runs fine and the motor is much softer running.

[scootr29]

I would stick to B5....if you have engine issues and Jeep/Mercedes does a fuel test and you have B20 in the tank...your chances of having the part fixed under warranty just went out the window. I work for a major diesel engine manufacturer and I have seen this happen to more than one customer.

I can't find B5 in my area so it is ULSD for me.

Just my 2 cents.....

[magellan]

It's a valid point regarding the warranty and use of anything over B5. That's the whole purpose of the thread.
For those of us wanting to do more for the environment and our nation by reducing our dependence on petroleum, we need to do this without the support of the manufacturers, though this is changing as standards are developed for biodiesel.

The main reason only B5 is approved has to do with fuel quality.

That said, there are plenty of vehicles running on biodiesel with no problems. These are Euro designed engines where a lot of biodiesel is used.

So, the thread is about actual real world experience in the use of biodiesel in these engines, good or bad. If you have gone "beyond the safe zone of B5," let's here about it.

I've done a bunch of research, and the only concern I have is with the post injection effects on motor oil. So I am doing analysis on my oil (the purpose for my baseline on B5) to see what the actual effects are. I also plan to add an extra filter/water separator along with a fuel pressure gauge to monitor fuel pressure to the low side of the IP.

Finally, I will start with low blends (B5, then did some B10, now B20) and work my way up.

[no-blue-screen]

Like I said, it was just meant as a word of caution for others reading the thread. The reason why oil dilution is such an issue is because of the cost of an oil change on this rig. Losing the warranty on the fuel system and more frequent oil changes would nullify any financial benefits. My reasoning in not using bio is based strictly on the warranty issue....that alone is enough to deter me.

Not to be political, I have have always felt the best way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the near term is for us to modify our driving habits.

With all that said, I am interested in those running higher blends and their experiences as well.

[Formula280ss]

Im my case I can not find a commerical station that is blending less than 5% (only equal to) Bio diesel. At Gas City the green tag on the pump says that the blend will be from 5% to 20%. Speedway has B11 sticker on the pump.

I guess I am going beoynd the safe zone no matter what.

BTW in my Duramax when I run the B11 the motor has the same typical diesel sound. Yesterday I ran one gallon of 100% Bio and the motor sound changed to a much softer sound. Bio must have some great lubricity to quite down the engine this much.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by no-blue-screen

Like I said, it was just meant as a word of caution for others reading the thread. The reason why oil dilution is such an issue is because of the cost of an oil change on this rig. Losing the warranty on the fuel system and more frequent oil changes would nullify any financial benefits. My reasoning in not using bio is based strictly on the warranty issue....that alone is enough to deter me.

Not to be political, I have have always felt the best way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the near term is for us to modify our driving habits.

With all that said, I am interested in those running higher blends and their experiences as well.

NBS, I think we are in agreement on these points, except that I am not in this to save $. I only drive about 7k miles a year and (given the price of diesel, we about break even on the mileage increase. Even if I am changing my oil every 6k miles, that's about once a year, which I would probably due anyway. That said, I don't want to get saddled with thousands of dollars in repair costs either!

At some point, the warranty issue goes away and you still have to decide if you want to risk running higher blends given the warning not to. The question I am trying to get to the bottom of is, "does running BD cause any damage?" I've done about as much reading on this as I can; now I want empirical data.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Formula280ss

What is the average Joe to do when blends of Bio of greater than B5 are the only possible options?

Fill partially with Dino, then finish up with the Blend. If it's B20, then 5 gallons of that in a full 22 gallon tank will net up 1 gal of biodiesel, just under 5%.

To me, 5% -- although helpful -- is not worth too much trouble.

Originally Posted by Formula280ss

Hello,

I have been running Bio in my Duramax and the truck runs fine and the motor is much softer running.

Chevy does allow for the use of B20 in fleet vehicles, and I think they require the addition of a water separator/fuel heater. If you use high quality fuel, then you should be fine up to B20 as far as what the engine can handle safely. (just my conjecture....make up your own mind).

I met a rep from Cummins on a flight recently and we discussed biodiesel. He confirmed that the only concern is fuel quality and the lack of standards. New standards were agreed to this June, so we may see manufacturers approving higher blends based on this.

[NDSU_Bison]

It's kind of a PITA, but my biodiesel supplier only offers B99 which is switched to B50 in the winter so I have to fill up part way with each to get lower blends of biodiesel.

As for warranty issues, biodiesel or not, the manufacturer must prove that the fuel doesn't meet posted fuel quality guidelines before they can dismiss your warranty claim.
http://www.sqbiofuels.com/faq_diesel.html#d6

I haven't notice any significant mileage changes using B5, B20, B50, or B99. The exhaust does smell a little better with B99. :-)

[no-blue-screen]

Originally Posted by NDSU_Bison

As for warranty issues, biodiesel or not, the manufacturer must prove that the fuel doesn't meet posted fuel quality guidelines before they can dismiss your warranty claim.
http://www.sqbiofuels.com/faq_diesel.html#d6

This is not correct in this case. Jeep states you can't use over 5% bio.....so you could be running the highest quality bio on the planet...if they run a test and find bio content higher than 5% ....no warranty on fuel system components.

[cr1ms0n]

My CRD has about 14k miles on it now and I have been running B20 since I got it. No noticeable problems yet. I intended to make my own biodiesel, but it ended up being more work than it was worth for me. I've still got most of the equipment and one day I might start back up again, although with home brew, I do worry about fuel quality.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by cr1ms0n

My CRD has about 14k miles on it now and I have been running B20 since I got it. No noticeable problems yet. I intended to make my own biodiesel, but it ended up being more work than it was worth for me. I've still got most of the equipment and one day I might start back up again, although with home brew, I do worry about fuel quality.

I had planned to make my own as well, but haven't found the time to set up an operation. I've done a lot of reading on some of the biodiesel sights (mostly www.biodieselnow.com) and most people feel they have better quality control when making it themselves. The chemistry isn't very hard and there are test you can do to verify you got a full conversion.

All biodiesel in the Portland meets ASTM standards. Most of it is from a company call Sequential Fuels, which is a major player in this area and are very attentive to putting out a quality product.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by no-blue-screen

This is not correct in this case. Jeep states you can't use over 5% bio.....so you could be running the highest quality bio on the planet...if they run a test and find bio content higher than 5% ....no warranty on fuel system components.

I think in the end, it depends on what the problem is, though I agree it would be an uphill battle regardless. If the IP develops a crack in it, that is pretty obvious not caused by the fuel and should be covered.

Worn out seals or damage due to gelling are fuel related, and I think it is fair for the manufacturer to not cover the repair if the required fuel was not used. They are upfront on this, so if you choose to run higher blends, you do so at your own risk.

Again, as shown in the post linked to earlier in this thread, it can be an uphill battle proving your point. In that case, it doesn't sound like the dealer had any idea what was really wrong and found an easy scape goat in biodiesel.