Well it's time to do my first oil change since i bought my CRD. Did a lot of research including calling the local Mercedes dealer, found out that Mercedes has changed their mind about 5W-30 and they recommend 5W-40. Went to Napa auto parts and the guy their knew my engine quite well to my surprise and he said they had MB specific 229.3 full synthetic oil. 5L jugs. bought 2 and a filer, out the door for $88. Liqui Moly is the stuff. He swor by it. Well anywhoo, going to go change the oil now. let me know what you all think!
Similar have been on sale here in the past, fine for a sterile environment but.....Definitely potential for problems , particularly on a off road vehicle when their advice is :
"if you run over any foreign object on the road pull over and check the valve for any damage or leak." :shhh:
I'm using castrol here as the examples because whatever your thoughts on them they do produce good stuff and are knowleadgable if you go on their web site and use their what oil for my car they point out w40 for non particualte and w30 for particualate. Other vehicles notably ford a few years back suffered from using thicker oil in the zetec engine. Be careful.
More to the point other manufacturers state exactly the same.
The following are my thoughts and not instructions, quite happy to be proven wrong ��
I would change it reasonably soon IF you have a particulate filter. I worked for many years as an aircraft tech and the results of the wrong oil, or oil breakdown on components were often evident on service.
Particulate filters are sensitive beasties but I have to honest though, I've little experience of them going wrong. But I a reliably informed that wrong oil will affect it and I don't know if jeep ones are replace or clean ?
That said the plus side is the CRD engine itself can happily run on 5w40.
I'd run it a while and save some dosh for new oil. My gut Instinct would be no problems short term but running on that long term is not an option.
I must stress that's my personal take and I like to change my oil round about every 6 months doing about 14 000 miles a year. I often feel oil is the least understood and least contemplated crucial component.
The ford problems came from the wrong oil, they didn't affect the engine itself at first, similar to the particulate filter example, the oil clogged up various breathers and caused amongst other things back pressure and misfires. Ie metalwork of the engine fine, but made to run incorrectly by ancillary component problems.
I don't want it to ruin the DPF if that's what it'll do... I was going to change my oil in 8k mile intervals. So should I just cut my loss and call myself an idiot for not getting the EXACT oil needed and change it within a month, or will I honestly be okay running it for a few thousand miles with no issues at all?
I run Liqui Moly (or Lubro Moly) 229.51 spec oil and get a great deal on eBay buying 20 liters at a time from this one reseller in Ohio. I only pay ~ $130 shipped to my door so it is pretty cheap for two oil changes for the CRD. The oil is only 3-4 months old so it is not old stock that has gone stale. I then get a WIX filter from my local auto parts shop as well.
Very good deal on that. Will have to keep that in mind. I just am hoping someone can give me a strong answer on if the 229.3 for 8k miles will be fine and not cause any damage as long as I switch to 229.51 my next oil change...
The valve sits pretty high up, near the top of the plastic piece on the engine skid plate. There is about 3 in of clearance between the skid and the valve. If you hit something to damage the valve, you have a lot more to worry about than the valve.
Using .51 spec Pennzoil I change mine every 6500 anyway so just change it then or sooner. You'll be fine. I am crazy when it comes to oil changes (2x most people) but it seems to work so far at over 100k miles and no massive issues ----knock knock woody. My swirl motor is toast and I resistor'd it so what that does the the DPF is another story .
You do know that Mercedes specs 5w40 in all their diesel equipped vehicles with the OM642 diesel engine? All of their diesels have DPFs and they are using 5w40.... Not sure I understand your statement "a w40 in a particulate filter equipped car will cause long term problems"
I've stated quite clearly that I'm not the boffin and i will happily stand corrected if US spec is different. A bit of decent research will answer your question and help you understand.
Merc do not recommend 10w40 specifically. Its in the owners handbook !!!!! They recomend a range of viscosities. They recomend a max viscosity of w30 on a 3.0 CRD engine equipped with the filter. Or at least that's what they told me :shhh:
Furthermore have a chat with the oil people , they will answer your questions. Have you looked at the castrol recommendation I posted ? There's the Mobil one too. They all arrive at the same conclusion which is based on oil expertise IN CONJUNCTION with Merc.
Plus not all OM642 Engines have particualte filters, mine certainly doesn't. Therefore if I want to I can use w40 , again info from Merc via the dealers.
If you google particulate filter and oil problems you'll soon have the light bulb come on :2thumbsup: save me posting it all.
Fair play it doesn't mention viscosity but then it doesn't mention a lot of other things, it stays on a pretty simple level. The clear point though is that the oil affects production , or not, of soot and ash and other things that will screw things up.
So......Any student of basic physics will tell you that fluids react differently and perform differently dependant upon pressure, temperature flow etc etc . One further Crucial feature that Impacts upon all of those criteria is viscosity. Put it in perspective a w40 is 25% different to a w30 (for our purposes) and is therefore quite a variable to introduce and leave to chance when a/ w30 is recomended virtually without exception and b/ you read stories like these:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/7607863/Fiat-diesel-problem.html
And there's loads of those accounts around around, Mazda , Merc and Fiat seem to figure quite highly.
I've also been on every major oil company web site I can think of and spoken with several. They all recomend either 5w30 for particualte filter equipped crds and 5w40 for non equipped or , and this is the rub, 5w30 for all , not the other way round.
Now these guys are the boffins so it's not just me. As I stated very clearly ill happily stand corrected if up to date info on US spec says otherwise , no problem. But as its the same engine, I'd be cautious and be doing a hell of a lot of research.
I agree that there are different oils that can be used by the OM642.....here in the USA...if you went to a Mercedes dealer and got your oil changed they will use 5w40 Mobil1 ESP. If you go to the parts counter and ask for oil for your OM642 with a DPF that will provide you quarts of 5w40 Mobil 1 ESP.
I won't drink the 5w30 or thinner oil Koolaid for any diesel engine. Since I tow very heavy in summer, I've gone up to a low emission 15w40 oil for those months I'm towing my large camper.
To the OP, you can keep your original non-.51 oil; your engine won't mind but your DEF wil.
What I got from everyone so far is this: Putting the 229.3 in my CRD will not effect the engine at all, but it will damage the DPF in the LONG run if I keep it a habit of running the same 229.3 oil in it... I talked to the MB dealer and they recommended using 5W40, that I am not questioning nor debating... I think i'll believe the MB dealer being as we have their engine... Next time i'll be sure to get 229.51, but for now, i'll run this 229.3 for around 8k miles and change to .51 my next oil change.
MB 229.3 is a gas engine spec, as is MB 229.5. It's 229.51 that is the MB OEM diesel spec just like scootr said. Oil intended for gassers won't stand up to deisel abuse for very long. Liqui Moly does make an oil that meets MB 229.51 but I don't believe that is it.
I just spoke with the local (Authorized) Mercedes dealership.. Only place in town that carries an MB 229.51 spec oil.. (only place in a 400mile radius actually!)
I showed them that MY owner's manual says I need a 5W-30.. he proceeded to show me that in EVERY diesel engine on the lot, the book says 5W-40 for his MB engines.
And YES, they have DPF's..
I would say it's NOT going to cause a problem with the DPF using the 40 over the 30. They use Mobile 1 ESP M 5W-40 at this dealer.
Most of the points already covered, question remains, why does uk advice differ from US advice for exactly the same engine and why do oil experts ie the boffins at the oil companies reflect the UK style advice ?
What was his explanation for why it wouldn't cause a problem for the particualte filter ?
If my book says w30 I would choose that over and above what's in a random vehicles handbook. Did he also demonstrate that they all have the same components and its only the handbook and sump contents that differ ? Ie are the same partic filters fitted ? Gm and fiat changed theirs , looked the same but worked properly !!
I'm also intrigued that only one place carries that spec !!!????!!!!!! Is it a very small town ? . that spec is extremely common and matches the performance of most of the GM , Ford and BMW specs.
It was rubbish, straight away someone posted their uk CRD has a filter lol
Read the thread properly.
considering mb oil spec. If you have a read of the data sheets you will see that the .31 carries the same considerations with regards to low ash etc as .51 (Merc state the oil must not contribute to or cause emission problems and specifically mention particulate filters) so in that respect ie filter considerations it makes little or no difference but of course we need to take heed of what merc recomemd :thumbsup: There are .3 and .5 standards but if you look around all the good quality oils seem to just go for .31 and .51 . I guess it's just coverall with no detriment perhaps
However the .51 & .31 refer to the engineering of the oil and not just it's ability to work with the particualte filter. Essentially there's a list of things and it simply measures the level of achievement of the oil as outlined in Mercs info sheet "requirements in respect of engine oils " you can't simply say I don't need .51 because I haven't got a particulate filter. Mine recommends .51 and I don't have a particulate filter. If yours recommends different well there you go but it's a bigger picture.
However we digress from the main point of the thread, viscosity recommendations ................
Filter equipped cars in the uk are recommended w30 , in the US w40. Same engine fitted to wk, same company , why ?
No filter cars w40 worldwide unless different is needed for operating conditions.
The joker in the pack or the conundrum is the advice from oil companies who,lets be honest unless you're one of their boffins and I suspect you're not probably know a lot better than us the ins and outs of it, reflect the uk advice.
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