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Test drove a nice 05 limited with 88k but then things started going badly..

3K views 35 replies 10 participants last post by  dellis 
#1 ·
Have been looking for Limted WK to replace my aging beloved WJ and came across an 05 Limited in the tan with the Hemi, Quad Drive II, tow package, Tow hooks, all the good stuff. I initially wanted the 08+'s because of the refreshed 4.7 since it seems like a very good engine with relatively easy maintenance but this is a good price at 9k and only 88k miles.

How is the Hemi's maintenance schedule and cost? I like how my 4.0 drinks the cheapest oil and filters, roughly $35 for a oil and filter change. Are there certain things to look for on this engine? I'm always skeptical of low mileage vehicles in a tiny car lot. First time driving or hearing a V8...my 4.0 and 4.2 all rev cleanly mostly, this 5.7 and the 4.7 I looked at previously both have this kind of clicking misfire-ish sound when i'm giving it gas in neutral, Normal? Is this the difference between a V engine and an inline?

The grill was cracked and missing the vent panels that go in the throat of the grill, Are these easy to find? Steering wheel was oddly quite worn for 88k are replacements easy to install? I see OEM wheels on Ebay for under $100.

Finally, During the test drive I notice everything is sluggish, as far as the windows and sunroof, then I brake hard and see that the abs lights, and tps lights go on along with "service brake electronics" or something like that. I start to head back to the dealership and thats when the wipers come on for no reason veryyy slowly and I cant turn them off. I park the Jeep and the gauge cluster starts to die and all the lights are coming on when I kill it and pull the codes.

P0520 Engine Oil Pressure sensor/ Switch Circuit
P0513 Invalid SKIM key
P0480 Cooling Fan 1 Control Circuit
P0622 Generator Field Not switching Properly
P0562 Battery Voltage Low
U1417 ???
U1411 ????
U1418 ???

I've looked at the definitions and they seem kind of all over the place. I know if WJ's battery's would get very low they'd cause all kinds of funky behavior but ALL of these codes?? and the ABS and TPS lights to come on? I told the salesman if they can clear all this up I'd buy it and to start with a new battery. Going to call them tomorrow and bring a code scanner to look again myself.

Long post, thank you guys for reading through. This will be my first "new" Jeep and I dont want to get stuck with something that will have me spending alot of money on it. My WJ is at 170k mostly all trouble free! :cheers2:
 
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#4 ·
Several of those codes are consistent with a low battery condition: P0562, U1417, U1411, U1418 ... I know because I saw several of those same ones when I had a low voltage condition. The battery failure on a test drive is somewhat odd. Alternator? The SKIM error just means a key that wasn't recognized was inserted. The other three may or may not be connected to the battery condition, so you might need to be investigate a little further.

As for the price. Yes, $9000 is seems to be about what you should expect to pay retail at a fixed-price dealer, and I would expect the Jeep to basically be problem free at this price.

I just recently bought a WK as well. Some other things to know:
1) Does the car "clunk" when engaging from park to reverse, or neutral to drive? If so, that's a top differential bushing that needs replacement ... major PITA.
2) Do they have a carfax available? If not get one through eBay for $4 and make sure that the mileage looks correct ... it may also show some of the maintenance schedule for the Jeep. Hopefully the differentials have been serviced.
3) Make sure you test the four-wheel drive system, perhaps on some gravel.
4) Are the front struts busted? Do you see grease all over the struts? ... another big repair.
5) For the steering wheel, another approach is to recondition it by cleaning and then sanding with fine grit sandpaper. Then spray it with SEM Classic Coat Leather dye/paint. SEM 17363 is a direct match for the lighter color, Light Greystone ... SEM 17243 is a close match for the darker color, Khaki (a little reddish, but really close). It takes just a couple of hours and the results look tremendous.
6) Compared with the 4.0, the "around-town" gas mileage of the Hemi might give you some wallet shock ... not so bad on the highway.
 
#5 ·
Thank you very much for the details Dellis!

I shifted from park drive neutral reverse etc and experienced some shifting of the Jeep but not exactly a clunk, but this was when the jeep was dying, freaking out when I got back to the dealership. also on unlevel ground so will have to recheck that.

Did not know you could do carfax on ebay, beats paying $40 for one.

Did not see any grease on the suspension, but did see one drop of something on the exhaust under the passenger side front door.

I may try to "recondition" it but when looking for a refurb steering wheel for my WJ I came across Wheelskins.com and theyre skins they mail you look fantastic and high quality, may just go that route.

I dont really mind gas prices, I drive only Jeeps, thats just the way it is.

Forgot to mention the AC didnt work either! made sure to tell them that HAD to be fixed! 100 degree weeks in Texas are no joke!
 
#6 ·
If we're thinking about the same "ticking": noise at idle, then you should be okay. Mine has ticked at idle since I've owned it. At first I was paranoid that it was more than just the normal "hemi tick" but I haven't experienced any other issues with that, so I'm okay with it. Even after upgrading the stock wires to some taylor shorties.

-9k seems like a good price for the mileage, assuming the dealer is aware of the issues you experienced.

-IMO, all of those codes could be thrown from low voltage from the battery. I would load test it, or swap in a good battery if you can. These rigs do some wonky things on low voltage..

-The grill parts are easy to find, but arguably expensive.. your best bet would be a scrapyard or a lucky find.

-not really sure what you mean when you said "everything is sluggish" the engine shouldn't feel sluggish! Unless it needed a tune-up.

-there is an ignition recall on these models that you should be aware of, if it hasn't already been performed on that jeep, then the electronic/ignition issues could very likely be caused by a faulty ignition switch.

-having the AC not work is a big deal, I would demand that be included in the purchase.

-also, on this forum most guys have gone to local leather shops and they will refurb the steering wheel like new. Or you could get a cover.. idk. My leather was shot on the wheel by 100k, I just threw a good stitched cover on it.

-for that mileage, I probably would buy the jeep, if you could talk down the price a little more then that's even better.

-don't worry about the mileage, the 4.7s and 3.7s are getting barely 2-5mpg better, with like half the power.. the hemi is the way to go!

-Mine is at 117k and issue free so far! Just did the ignition recall twice haha, but other than that, regular fluid intervals and the diff bushings (clunk) have been my only real maintenance costs.
-if you do end up getting the hemi, I would stress that installing an oil catch can is pretty much a requirement on these 5.7s.. they recycle oil through the intake like nobody's business, and I empty a full catch can almost every 6k.
 
#10 ·
If we're thinking about the same "ticking": noise at idle, then you should be okay. Mine has ticked at idle since I've owned it. At first I was paranoid that it was more than just the normal "hemi tick" but I haven't experienced any other issues with that, so I'm okay with it. Even after upgrading the stock wires to some taylor shorties.

-9k seems like a good price for the mileage, assuming the dealer is aware of the issues you experienced.

-IMO, all of those codes could be thrown from low voltage from the battery. I would load test it, or swap in a good battery if you can. These rigs do some wonky things on low voltage..

-The grill parts are easy to find, but arguably expensive.. your best bet would be a scrapyard or a lucky find.

-not really sure what you mean when you said "everything is sluggish" the engine shouldn't feel sluggish! Unless it needed a tune-up.

-there is an ignition recall on these models that you should be aware of, if it hasn't already been performed on that jeep, then the electronic/ignition issues could very likely be caused by a faulty ignition switch.

-having the AC not work is a big deal, I would demand that be included in the purchase.

-also, on this forum most guys have gone to local leather shops and they will refurb the steering wheel like new. Or you could get a cover.. idk. My leather was shot on the wheel by 100k, I just threw a good stitched cover on it.

-for that mileage, I probably would buy the jeep, if you could talk down the price a little more then that's even better.

-don't worry about the mileage, the 4.7s and 3.7s are getting barely 2-5mpg better, with like half the power.. the hemi is the way to go!

-Mine is at 117k and issue free so far! Just did the ignition recall twice haha, but other than that, regular fluid intervals and the diff bushings (clunk) have been my only real maintenance costs.
-if you do end up getting the hemi, I would stress that installing an oil catch can is pretty much a requirement on these 5.7s.. they recycle oil through the intake like nobody's business, and I empty a full catch can almost every 6k
.
Is the ignition recall something I take to the dealer and they perform free of charge? What the heck is a catch can?? And why is it needed?
 
#7 ·
Since nobody else has mentioned it, I will throw out the fairly rare 'valve seat drop' problem some of the early (05-06) hemis have. I would probably still consider purchasing one, but unfortunately it trashes the whole engine when it does happen. There are several posts here and You-tube on it if you want more info.
 
#9 ·
I feel like there's always a valve seat drop problem lol, I see so many WJ's on craigslist with dropped valve seats, one of the reasons I'll miss my trusty 4.0. The thing has been overheated 3 or 4 times by a gf who doesnt know what a temp gauge is. Doesnt miss a beat!

Will do the carfax on ebay!

I've already noticed quite a few nicer WK's at the salvage yards around me, I'd be okay paying under $100 for a new chrome grill.
I will also pull the engine cover off the Hemi and see if there are any apparent oil leaks.

On the subject of no AC, I believe we had the vents open and the fan blowing and after hearing back to the dealer on the test drive it started getting very hot in the cabin, as if the heater was on. Is this usual of no AC with the fans on?

I also failed to mention that the Navigation unit would display "insert Disc" or something to that effect. Are these nav discs still available or are they subscription only? Not a deal breaker since the maps may be really old, But i DO want as many things on this "new" Jeep to work out of the box.
 
#11 ·
You'll love the WK! We have an '05 & '06, each Hemi LTD's with 166K on the clock currently.

Here's a WK close to you that might work. It's a limited with the QDII pictured but it doesn't mention which engine... higher mileage than the one you test drove but IMO that's not a deal breaker especially for the price listed in the link. It should be the 4.7 with the QDII option, or the Hemi. Good Luck!

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/5644657673.html
 
#12 ·
Pretty sure that will be a 4.7 with Quadra-Trac II ... if it were a Hemi, it would have a label on the rear hatch. I don't think QDII came with the 4.7 unless special ordered.

One advantage of buying direct from the owner is that you can often get the maintenance records. I saw a 2005 WK on a dealer lot with 95K that looked absolutely abused ... I found 20 small problems that were not resolved, including a rear window that wouldn't work, a busted CV boot, and a 4WD error. No maintenance records, and I feared that even oil wasn't changed regularly. No thanks. I would rather have a Jeep with 30,000 more miles that was regularly maintained.
 
#13 ·
Flood???
 
#15 ·
this is a good price at 9k and only 88k miles.
Agreed. Can you get a warranty? I got a 36k mile one when I bought my jeep at around 88k miles.

How is the Hemi's maintenance schedule and cost?
Not bad at all. Gas mileage sucks, but you're not looking at Priuses. Regular maintenance items aren't very expensive at all.

this kind of clicking misfire-ish sound when i'm giving it gas in neutral, Normal?
My hemi has clicked since the day I drove it off the lot 4 years ago. Everything I've read says its normal. Some people say it could be worn or improper lifters, some people say seafoam in the oil helps, but... whatever.

The grill was cracked and missing the vent panels that go in the throat of the grill, Are these easy to find?
I think you can buy the whole assembly for < $100. Or you can just punch out the other vent panels and replace them with expanded metal sheets, which is a common thing people do here.

Steering wheel was oddly quite worn for 88k are replacements easy to install? I see OEM wheels on Ebay for under $100.
Mine was too. I got a nice leather steering wheel cover from wheelskins instead for half that.

Finally, During the test drive...
Sluggish windows and stuff isn't a big deal but... the rest of that... dealbreaker for me.

Also I have an 05 with a hemi and my engine hasn't been grenaded due to valve seat drop yet. I think I've heard that's only really a problem if you overheat the motor, which you shouldn't do anyway. And he's right, there's a 5.7L badge but no Hemi badge.
 
#16 ·
Excellent stuff guys. I'm working on getting the VIN to run through carfax, but last I spoke to the dealer its in the shop now. Turns out the alternator was bad and the battery was new, the also taking care of the AC thank god. Hope to do another test drive once it gets back. Plan to drive to drive it on the highway for good while to see how it does.
 
#21 ·
The way the original QuadraDrive operated on WJ's was; the front would engage once wheel slippage occcured, Which I assume is how QDII works?

Got the VIN, Carfax came back with regular maintenance and confirmed low miles. Small impact/accident reported. Carfax says no biggie. So I will be back to test drive again and most likely buy it when it gets back from the shop *FIXED* and with AC!

the ad for eye candy if any of you helpful gents were interested
http://www.supercarlotsa.com/2005_Jeep_Grand Cherokee_San Antonio_TX_264145672.veh
 
#28 ·
I did some reading on the systems. Found a good summary of the Jeep four-wheel drive systems here: Clicky

Both Quadra Drive II and Quadra Trak II use the NV245 transfer case, and the same axles. Both systems are full time 4-wheel drive with a default torque distribution of 48/52, and include a neutral and a 4-lo (locking the four wheels). Some Jeeps (e.g., 2008 Liberty) also have a 2WD option with Quadra Trak II. The difference between these two systems is that Quadra Drive II has Eaton Electronic Limited Slip Differentials and the Quadra Trak II uses conventional differentials with a "brake lock" supplemental system (see below for description).

When I was searching for my WK, I really wanted the Quadra Drive II with a 4.7, but it is a rare animal. One had to upgrade with an off-road package that had skid plates and tow hooks. I only found one WK that was equipped that way, and it was trashed by the first owner. So, I ended up with a 4.7 and the Quadra Trak II system.

Quadra Trak I is much different, and I see many people calling it not a "true" 4WD system but an AWD system. There's also a lot of confusing information out on the internet about it. I think, however, it is accurate to say that the NV140 transfer case of Quadra Trak 1 is locked, splitting the torque 48/52 between front and rear. The system also uses "brake lock" (click for explanation)from the anti-lock brake system along with open differential. So, if a wheel is spinning, the ESP brake lock system will apply brakes to that spinning wheel in order to fool the open differential into giving more power to the non-spinning wheel ... the intent is to mimic a locked differential condition on a single axle.
 
#32 ·
Damn! I already have plans to go out to a friends land and celebrate the 4th the most american way, shooting guns! I need to put the Jeep through its paces first and make sure I dont have any sneaky problems that'll surface 2 hours from home! Soon though! and thank you for the invite! :)
 
#31 ·
Picked her up today and got her home to detail! This HEMI is POWERFUL! going 75 on the highway and punching the gas results in a quick sprint to 90 no problem!

Of course after detailing and ownership ranking about 3 or 4 hours, she threw a code. P0520:eek:il sensor switch. BWD replacement is $15 at oreillys so I'll go pick that up soon. I've read this code disable the cylinder deactivation? Pretty cheap sensor to replace so couldnt hurt to throw it on there. If I pull the switch will oil come spilling out? I'm 750 miles from service time so I guess I can wait till then if oil will come out.

Otherwise this Jeep runs very smooth! I have to get used to the electronic throttle, its weird coming from a carb'd CJ and a cable actuated peddle in my WJ.
Took her to a local creek and tested the 4LO more thoroughly. Are the wheels supposed to be binding up on rocky surfaces? do the diffs lock when in 4LO?

Noticed that the fan position knob lights (point at face, feet, both, defrost etc) are out just on that knob, are these leds replaceable?

TPMS: HOW DO I DISABLE THIS?? Its a nice feature but I cant stand constantly being told "SERVICE TPMS SOON" "SPARE TIRE LOW" I Have some JK takeoff's I'll be putting on soon since the tires on it are trash but I'd like to do something in the mean time. It is so annoying!

The key fob works every now and then? I noticed the battery holder had come loose on one of the pins in the board, is this common and will a little solder take care of it?

Last thing, Is the Jeep always supposed to chime as soon as you open the door? Mine chimes regardless if the lights are off, no key in ignition or anything else ive tried. what gives? Am I just in a newer Jeep with more safety features?

Thank you guys for the Help!!
 
#34 ·
Congratulations on the new Jeep! She looks really nice.

Are the wheels supposed to be binding up on rocky surfaces? do the diffs lock when in 4LO?
Not sure what you mean by the first question, but the wheels are locked together by the differentials in 4-Lo mode.

Noticed that the fan position knob lights (point at face, feet, both, defrost etc) are out just on that knob, are these leds replaceable?
They are not LEDs, but surface mount incandescents. If you are handy with a soldering iron, there is a write up and YouTube video on replacing the bulbs.

TPMS: HOW DO I DISABLE THIS?? Its a nice feature but I cant stand constantly being told "SERVICE TPMS SOON" "SPARE TIRE LOW" I Have some JK takeoff's I'll be putting on soon since the tires on it are trash but I'd like to do something in the mean time. It is so annoying!
If you have access to a computer, I believe you can go into the TPMS module and enter "00000000" for the ID of each of your TPMS tire sensors, and all your TPMS stuff goes away. Not 100% sure of this, but I noticed that this was how my TPMS was configured when I purchased my WK.

The key fob works every now and then? I noticed the battery holder had come loose on one of the pins in the board, is this common and will a little solder take care of it?
I've read that some people have a circuit board crack that needs repair, and others that just have a battery contact that needs bending to create better contact. Mine was just a poor battery contact.
 
#33 ·
Nice looking ride! Can't help much on your problem list but others will chime in soon I'm sure..

1) I can tell you after 7 months of wheelin', highway driving, and some DD, the electronic throttle is not my favorite... particularly on very technical. low speed obstacles. I own other vehicles that I don't notice the ET but I don't wheel them. 2) The diff's do lock in 4LO and I hear a clicking noise at low speed at times when turning at full lock or close to it...does not affect the performance in any way 3) Not sure of the binding on rock question but I don't get that sensation? 4) Mine only chimes with the key on, lights on, etc. but no chime with everything off.

If you need a place to test it come on up! We've got a few obstacles @ the ranch that will show you how capable a stock WK is and will expose any problem areas you might have with no damage.:thumbsup:
 
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