Swapping Axles for QD II - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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post #46 of 51 Old 03-18-2017, 05:04 PM
azzkicker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by board350 View Post
This video from Eaton appears to be the QDII diff. My understanding of the system is the when the solenoid valve is activated the bypass port for the oil pressure is closed and the oil is forced into the clutch pack actuation chamber. The geroter pump only turns, and therefore only makes oil pressure, when there is a speed differential between the two axles.

So two things have to happen before the diff will lock. First, you have to have some amount of wheel spin to produce oil pressure. Other videos I've seen seem to indicate about 1-2 wheel revolutions in a complete loss of opposite wheel traction will produce enough oil pressure. Second, the solenoid valve needs to be activated. I would assume this is some amount of voltage, possibly system voltage but it could be less.

The computer is likely using the ABS sensors to detect the wheel spin and then activate the solenoid valve. How long it keeps it activated is anybody's guess but it would seem that some combination of unified wheel speed over a period of time combined with an overall time limit would be logical.

https://youtu.be/FpiFq63N0Ac

I will try and make some time to connect my meter to one of the diff's and simulate some trail situations and see what I get. If the solenoid valve has a limit on activation time, one could easily put a time delay relay in place to protect it. Simply cycle the toggle switch to reset the relay if it times out.

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My QD2 does not need any wheel spin to completely lock up 4 low, or to stay locked once locked in high. The first test I did on mine was to pull one wheel up on a steep gravel pile, which had the jeep teetering on 2 wheels. In normal hi range, it did spin a tiny bit as the two wheels lifted off, but it quickly locked up so that slow creeping climbed the pile and the wheels off the ground were only turning with the other two. Once it locked up, it didn't unlock until I pulled forward and turned the front wheel. I also noticed that if I punched the throttle, it was locked without spin.

In low range, there was absolutely no spin prior to locking up, and I didn't need to stab the throttle to do it. The jeep crawled inch by inch, tires off the ground or no. It seems clear to me that I'm completely locked in 4-lo, which makes me believe you should be able to lock the axles up without burning them up (maybe it isn't 12 volts, or maybe there are resistors to limit the current, but it must be possible). Obviously, the axles don't burn up in 4-lo, so there must be something going on. It's possible the computer is cleverly unlocking when I'm letting off the gas or something, but it seems more likely there is a way to safely lock these.

I've had limited slip auburn axles, and I've had e-lockers on the rear of several trucks, and they don't work anywhere near as good as QD2. In high range, it's like having air lockers front and rear with a mind reading genius running the instantaneous switch. In low, it binds a little more in a turn than it does in high, but I do think it's unlocking a little.

By the way, there's a lot more traction to be had in the front end than the rear end, and therefore more benefit to a locker up front than in the rear. Otherwise, you'd see people offroading as well with a 2WD locked rear end as they do in 4WD with open diffs. Having a locker in the rear is easier to drive with, and the rear ends tend to be stronger, so that's usually the first place people put one.

I think you're really onto something if you can get the axles for cheap, and they bolt right up.

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07 WK 5.7 QD2, 4" lift, 33X10" tires, M8000s
ARB twin air,Dual AGM group 49, sliders and skids
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post #47 of 51 Old 03-18-2017, 05:24 PM
azzkicker
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Originally Posted by sgossler View Post
In my experience, with the machinery at my printing shop... solenoids dont burn just buy being engaged. Like a light bulb they eventually burn out. Obviously the longer they are energized the shorter their lifespan will be.

My intention is to lock the diffs on a need to bases. So it will not be engaged for long periods. The cool thing is I can lock them even in 4hi!! So going up an incline with gravel or slippery stuff I can just lock the diff and spare my brake pads.
It depends on the design of the solenoid. For instance, an RV coach solenoid looks identical to an old ford starter solenoid. However, the ford solenoid will burn out in a day or less if you use it for battery isolation, and the RV solenoid will last a decade. I know this because I had a spare ford solenoid and thought I would use it to charge my trailer battery when the engine was running. It worked when I hooked it up, and was dead the next time I checked. Then I asked a mechanic friend about it, and he clued me in I needed a "continuous duty" solenoid, which the starter solenoid wasn't.

If I were you, I'd be inclined to wire my control power for those solenoids to an accessory circuit, so you can't forget and leave them on when you turn off the rig.

On my WK, I found an empty fuse slot that was hot when the key was on, and dead when it was off. Then I used a fuse, bent the non-hot side up and wired it to a tiny crimp on female. The fuse goes right in, even with a wrap or two of electrical tape. That slot, by the way, is in the fuse box under the driver's dash. It's the top right fuse hole, which in my case didn't have a fuse in it. Yours may be different.
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07 WK 5.7 QD2, 4" lift, 33X10" tires, M8000s
ARB twin air,Dual AGM group 49, sliders and skids
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post #48 of 51 Old 03-21-2017, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
sgossler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azzkicker View Post
It depends on the design of the solenoid. For instance, an RV coach solenoid looks identical to an old ford starter solenoid. However, the ford solenoid will burn out in a day or less if you use it for battery isolation, and the RV solenoid will last a decade. I know this because I had a spare ford solenoid and thought I would use it to charge my trailer battery when the engine was running. It worked when I hooked it up, and was dead the next time I checked. Then I asked a mechanic friend about it, and he clued me in I needed a "continuous duty" solenoid, which the starter solenoid wasn't.

If I were you, I'd be inclined to wire my control power for those solenoids to an accessory circuit, so you can't forget and leave them on when you turn off the rig.

On my WK, I found an empty fuse slot that was hot when the key was on, and dead when it was off. Then I used a fuse, bent the non-hot side up and wired it to a tiny crimp on female. The fuse goes right in, even with a wrap or two of electrical tape. That slot, by the way, is in the fuse box under the driver's dash. It's the top right fuse hole, which in my case didn't have a fuse in it. Yours may be different.
Time will tell how the solenoid hold up to manual duty. My intention is to have the locking switches connected to a aux power switch, and that to the acc power. So if anyone comes and plays with the locking switches they wont do anything, unless the aux power switch is on. And all of them wont work with out the key being in the Acc position.
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2005 Jeep GC Limited 4.7 QTII
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post #49 of 51 Old 05-29-2017, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
sgossler
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Update time! I have now installed both front and rear axles. I can confirm, that everything bolts straight up. NO modification required. The only thing people need to remember is one of the half shafts for the front diff needs to be swapped too. I cleaned and resprayed all parts, I replaced all bushes and seals for the diffs, and I added new OEM Oil and Friction modifier. This week I plan to wire everything up and do a test. I used my original brakes for saftey, how ever I got a lot of extra parts for free thanks to a good guy junk yard guy, basically I got complete front an rear suspension &brakes for $500.
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2005 Jeep GC Limited 4.7 QTII
2.3" RRO lift Bilstein Struts/Shocks 255/70R17 Cooper AT3
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post #50 of 51 Old 06-08-2017, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
sgossler
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Hello everyone... So I finally got a chance to wire everything up. I used two 30 amp relays plus two 20 amp fuse. I supply 12 volts directly to the solenoids in the diff. They work great! They lock and unlock in an instant. So far, I have only tried them in 4 hi but can feel the difference instantly. I tried to go up a steep gradient at an angle, so that one wheel of each axle would not have good contact. You could notice the QT II system in action, but it definitely could not do the job, specially in 4 hi... then, I locked the rear... Instantly I started moving, but not having the center dif locked, I was not able to use all the power, and the system was still struggling. So I locked the front, and WOW.. It started going up the steep hill with out a problem.

The Eaton ELSD definitely dont like to be locked while the jeep is turning, not even in soft powder like dirt.. They are more comfortable going straight or in really slippery conditions. I will have to use a lot of caution while using this manual system.

I will try to shout a video later this month.
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2005 Jeep GC Limited 4.7 QTII
2.3" RRO lift Bilstein Struts/Shocks 255/70R17 Cooper AT3
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post #51 of 51 Old 06-10-2017, 01:50 PM
IlanLCD
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Kudos Sgossler.

It is great what you have done. Thanks to you, now we know that all WKs out there can be locked front (QD2) and rear (QD2, Ox, ARB).
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2008 WK, limited, QTII OX locker, 4.7 super chipped, free flow muffler, K&N filter, modified lift
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