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Unread 05-28-2015, 08:51 AM   #1
davids0865
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Smoking CRD, diagnosis help please

Hi Guys,

A search of the forum shows up a number of smoky CRD posts, but none that sound like my problem.

I can drive the car all day city and highway without a problem, but, let it idle for 10-12 mins and it begins to gush smoke which I am fairly sure is fuel not oil as it stinks of diesel.

Very embarrassing in a traffic jam, so ideas or checks to get a diagnosis appreciated, may be rare as I only know of one other person complaining on a UK forum which has no sensible suggestions.

Thanks in advance for your time,

David.

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Unread 05-28-2015, 09:13 AM   #2
linewarbr
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Does your CRD have a diesel particulate filter? Every 750 miles or so they do a regeneration cycle where fuel gets dumped into the exhaust to burn off soot in the the DPF. Any codes or trouble lights on the dash when it does it?
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Unread 05-28-2015, 09:45 AM   #3
davids0865
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Good question, as I understand it the UK spec wh does not have a dpf, if any one knows different please correct me, but I have had a look underneath and can identify the cat, which is just after the exhaust manifolds join together, but not a dpf.

No codes and anyway it happens every time it idles for a long period which has happened to me a number of times.
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Unread 05-28-2015, 09:57 AM   #4
RSA_Limited
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Hi Dave

I don't have a solution for you (yet), but want to let you know I suffer from the same problem (05 3.0CRD with ~200,000km on clock). The Jeep is very clean during normal driving, but let it idle for a few minutes and it floods the world with a white/light grey smoke which stinks of diesel. From my understanding, these engines do not have particulate filters - I'm sure I read this in a press release / internet article somewhere, but I could be (probably am) incorrect.

The OEM service manual for the 3.0 CRD engine states the following for 'Excessive White Smoke':
Air in fuel supply, possible leak in fuel supply side: Inspect fuel system.
Coolant leaking into combustion chamber: Perform pressure test of cooling system.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC’s) active or multiple, intermittent DTC’s: Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
In very cold ambient temperatures, engine block heater is malfunctioning (if equipped): Refer to In-Block Heater
Engine coolant temperature sensor malfunctioning: A DTC should have been set. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information. Also check thermostat operation.
Engine Control Module (ECM) has incorrect calibration: A DTC should have been set. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
Fuel filter plugged: Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Manual for fuel system testing.
Fuel grade not correct or fuel quality is poor: Temporarily change fuel brands and note condition. Change brand if necessary.
Fuel heater element or fuel heater temperature sensor malfunctioning. This will cause wax type build-up in fuel filter: Refer to Fuel Heater Testing (Refer to 14 – FUEL SYSTEM/FUEL DELIVERY/FUEL HEATER - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING).
Fuel injector malfunctioning: A DTC should have been set. Perform “Injector Identification Programming9 or 9Cylinder Cutout Test9 using scan tool to isolate individual cylinders. Also refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
Fuel injector hold-down(s) loose: Replace the copper washer(s)(shim) and torque to specifications.
Fuel injector protrusion not correct: Check washer (shim) at bottom of fuel injector for correct thickness.
Fuel injection pump malfunctioning: A DTC should have been set. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
Fuel supply side restriction: Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Manual for fuel system testing.
Intake manifold air temperature sensor malfunctioning: A DTC should have been set. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
Intake manifold heater circuit not functioning correctly in cold weather: A DTC should have been set. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information. Also check heater elements for correct operation.
Intake manifold heater elements not functioning correctly in cold weather: A DTC should have been set if heater elements are malfunctioning. Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures Information.
Internal engine damage (scuffed cylinder): Analyze engine oil and inspect oil filter to locate area of probable damage.
Restriction in fuel supply side of fuel system: Refer to Powertrain Diagnostic Manual for fuel system testing.


There is also similar advice for 'Excessive Blue Smoke' and 'Excessive Black Smoke'.

I know some of the above is a bit useless if you don't have the 'Powertrain Diagnostic Manual', but maybe it's a start and can help. I'm am carrying on with my own investigations with my car and will let you know if I make any progress.

Regards
(also) David
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Unread 05-28-2015, 10:24 AM   #5
RSA_Limited
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It was on wkjeeps.com that I read it (http://www.wkjeeps.com/export/wh_export.htm); no particulate filters on the WH CRDs evidently.

David
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Unread 05-28-2015, 11:58 AM   #6
davids0865
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OK thanks for that, interesting, I definitely don't have any DTC's, the only code I am getting, which may not be related is P0272 which is "Cyl 4, contribution/balance" which can mean a injector problem on that cylinder.
I am currently running a double dose of Redex fuel system cleaner through with each tank fill, and have just dosed the second tankful. If I get any further info I will be sure to post, thanks.

David
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Unread 05-28-2015, 02:31 PM   #7
Hendrix9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davids0865 View Post
OK thanks for that, interesting, I definitely don't have any DTC's, the only code I am getting, which may not be related is P0272 which is "Cyl 4, contribution/balance" which can mean a injector problem on that cylinder.
I am currently running a double dose of Redex fuel system cleaner through with each tank fill, and have just dosed the second tankful. If I get any further info I will be sure to post, thanks.

David
An injector problem sure could cause excessive smoke if it is indeed smoke caused by excess fuel. Injectors aren't cheap, though so I don't think I'd replace it unless there was a better way to know for sure. I haven't run into this personally, so take this with a grain of salt. I know with gasoline injectors you can measure the resistance of the injector and if one isn't reading pretty close to the others it's definitely bad. I'm not sure if that's the same with diesels but I'd probably try that. Edit: I don't think this is possible on a common rail diesel



"Failure: No Injection
Indicators:
Balance rates are high (positive), indicating fuel is being added to the cylinder because the computer thinks the fuel injector is not flowing enough. The computer makes this decision based on the two things it knows: the rotational speed of the crankshaft and the amount of fuel delivered. If the crankshaft is not spinning as fast as the computer thinks it should (or is spinning faster than it should), fuel (via pulse width) is added or taken away to even out crankshaft acceleration from each injector firing."

Read more: http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/exp...#ixzz3bT1tSC00

Have you replaced your crankshaft sensor? There's alot of information in the CRD sticky about that. Based on the paragraph above, I would think that might be able to cause this problem as well. Like I said though, I'm no expert and haven't run into this with my own CRD. (knock on wood) Let us know what you find out.
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Unread 05-29-2015, 02:47 AM   #8
davids0865
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In the UK, Bosch factory remanufactured injectors are £250 or £400 new, I have used a really good guy who refurbs for £100.

Does anyone know if the replacement injector needs to be coded to the ecu using starscan?
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Unread 05-29-2015, 10:47 AM   #9
oldsmoke
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I had the exact same problem with my GMC duramax diesel which uses the Bosch CP3 electronic fuel injection system similar to our Jeeps. I ended up having to replace my injectors. This injection system is hard on injectors as they are fired multiple times when the engine is idling and at low engine speeds in the interests of reduced noise or "diesel clatter". If you don't mind a little extra noise around the parking lots and camp grounds there are aftermarket tuners such as GreenDiesel who can reprogram your Jeep for much better longevity.
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Unread 05-29-2015, 11:54 AM   #10
davids0865
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Yeh, I'm coming to that conclusion
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Unread 05-29-2015, 06:26 PM   #11
TangoTango
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How many miles on it?
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Unread 05-30-2015, 12:47 AM   #12
davids0865
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115k
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Unread 05-31-2015, 03:16 PM   #13
jediknight
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Very interesting thread!
I didn't know that these injectors were refurbishable!
If you have access to an oscilloscope here's the injection patern for the CRD.

Experiment Condtions :
Configuration : Stock
Idle (620)
Eng Temp : 86C
Air Temp : 17C
Humidity : I dont know ... I would say normal
Injector number : 1

Tools:
Oscilloscolpe
Hall effect clamp
Rate of capture : 500usec
Automatic trigger

Duration of main inj (from energisation to denergisation) : about 550 usec
Duration of Pil injection 1 (midle one, from energisation to denergisation) : about 416 usec
Duration of Pil injection 2 ( the one on the left, from energisation to denergisation) : about 270 usec
Time between pil 1 and main (from denergisation of pil 1 to energisation of main) : 815 usec
Time between pil 2 and 1 (from denergisation of pil 2 to energisation of pil 1): 723 usec

This should help people diagnose their faulty injectors at idle.
Cheers
stock-inj-patern-hall-effect-clamp.jpg

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Unread 05-31-2015, 03:52 PM   #14
oldsmoke
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Very interesting info Jedi !! Maybe my tech did not have an occilloscope?

It was about 3 years ago I got the new injectors. My technician did all the tests and told me my injectors were fine. They were not fine!!! Although there was no driveability problems and the truck still had good power the smoking was driving me nuts. It was still under extended warranty and GM helped out a little so I went ahead and got a full set of new injectors installed at the dealer. Ended up out of pocket around $3500. but there is no more smoke. I have enjoyed thousands of kilometers of happy trailering and no more dirty looks in the campgrounds.

This shows the timing of the injection events but does not necessarily tell you how much fuel is being injected. The scope is only reading the signal coming to the injectors not the actual fuel being injected.
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Unread 06-01-2015, 04:51 AM   #15
davids0865
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Quick update, the Redex treatment seemed to have worked as halfway through the second tank the CEL went out YAY!! Then this morning while towing around 2000lb for 60 miles it came back on. Damn. Still smoking as well.
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