Smokey the 2005 WK 4.7L (Re) Build - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
nathanjaybar
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These piston heads look better than the other side, but I'm not surprised as this side is not the one with the problem. Before I put new heads on I'll be cleaning the top of the pistons for my own piece of mind. If anyone has done this or knows how, I'm open to suggestions.

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This is how she currently sits. I actually rested the heads back on the block secured by 2 head bolts on each side, with the valve covers and timing cover on to protect it, hopefully better than tin foil. I think it'll be a week+ before the heads will get here. I'll post pics of parts that come in and possibly the axle upper bushing replacement when I tackle it this weekend.

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'06 WK 4.7L V8 4WD | Recently purchased '05 WK 4.7L V8 4WD
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post #32 of 236 Old 08-31-2016, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
nathanjaybar
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Over the past couple days I've ordered pretty much all the parts I need from Amazon and RockAuto. Here's a list:

Cylinder heads (x2) with gaskets and new head bolts: eBay Odessa Cylinder Heads, Clearwater, FL - $785 (Covers shipping and core return)

Amazon
Exhaust manifold mounting bolts: DORMAN 03218 - $18.28
Timing Cover Gasket Kit: $34.19
Oil Pump: MOPAR 53020827AC - $98.94
Water Pump: GATES 43263 - $29.89
EGR Valve: DORMAN 911206 - $27.99
Windage Tray (Oil pan gasket): MOPAR 53020675AE - $33.03

RockAuto
Thermostat: MOPAR 68174083AA - $15.33
Timing Chain Set (Full Kit w/ gears): ENGINETECH TS393A - $214.79
Upper Radiator Hose: Gates 23037 - $6.43
Lower Radiator Hose: Gates 23038 - $9.48
PVC Valve: MOPAR 53032800AA - $7.35
Spark Plugs: Champion RC12MCC4 - $1.32 (x8)
Fuel Injector O-Rings: FEL-PRO ES70599 - $2.26 (x4)

Total: $1,292.10

The last thing I have to order is one O2 sensor and I should have everything I need to put it back together. I'll snap a pic when all the above come in, which should be some time next week.

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post #33 of 236 Old 08-31-2016, 01:42 PM
cranbiz
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Thanks for the source list and write up. I'm about to replace the heads on my daughter in law's 07 WK and have been looking at Rock Auto for the parts. Nice find for the Odessa Head package, that in itself will save her over $200. I didn't even think about new exhaust manifold bolts, that's a smart move I will duplicate.
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post #34 of 236 Old 09-02-2016, 12:12 AM
takman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjaybar View Post
Before I put new heads on I'll be cleaning the top of the pistons for my own piece of mind. If anyone has done this or knows how, I'm open to suggestions.
I use Carburetor cleaner. Spray it on and let it soak...repeat a few times. Should break it up enough so it comes off in large chunks...

Don't use anything metal to scrape it off...as you could damage the cylinder walls, or pistons....Use a plastic scraper....years ago i bought some sort of special scraper from a guy , specifically for this...made out of some sort of fiberglass epoxy resin.. don't know what it was called.

Then after its scraped, take the the big stuff out with a rag...then to get the small leftover bits out, use a shop vac to suck it out...

Also, would be a good idea to Run a Tap through all the cylinder bolt threads in the block.....they can get a bit deformed over the years, from the heads lifting...especially if it was overheated...and also full of dirt and grime and coolant when pulling off the heads etc...

that way when you put the new head bolts in, they go in nice and smooth...

Get a few bottles of brake parts cleaner, use the little plastic spray straw that comes with it, put it down the thread hole and spray until it pours out....use a compressed air blow gun, and blow out the hole......take your tap, spray some WD40 on it, and run it down the hole.....blow out the hole, and run the tap down again. Finally, spray brake clean again, and blow out the hole with compressed air.

You will be surprised how much junk comes out the threads..
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post #35 of 236 Old 09-02-2016, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
nathanjaybar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takman View Post
I use Carburetor cleaner. Spray it on and let it soak...repeat a few times. Should break it up enough so it comes off in large chunks...

Don't use anything metal to scrape it off...as you could damage the cylinder walls, or pistons....Use a plastic scraper....years ago i bought some sort of special scraper from a guy , specifically for this...made out of some sort of fiberglass epoxy resin.. don't know what it was called.

Then after its scraped, take the the big stuff out with a rag...then to get the small leftover bits out, use a shop vac to suck it out...

Also, would be a good idea to Run a Tap through all the cylinder bolt threads in the block.....they can get a bit deformed over the years, from the heads lifting...especially if it was overheated...and also full of dirt and grime and coolant when pulling off the heads etc...

that way when you put the new head bolts in, they go in nice and smooth...

Get a few bottles of brake parts cleaner, use the little plastic spray straw that comes with it, put it down the thread hole and spray until it pours out....use a compressed air blow gun, and blow out the hole......take your tap, spray some WD40 on it, and run it down the hole.....blow out the hole, and run the tap down again. Finally, spray brake clean again, and blow out the hole with compressed air.

You will be surprised how much junk comes out the threads..

This is great, thanks for the advice.

'06 WK 4.7L V8 4WD | Recently purchased '05 WK 4.7L V8 4WD
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post #36 of 236 Old 09-02-2016, 03:37 PM
takman
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When say Tap, I mean a Tap with the exact diameter and thread pitch as the head bolts.

Also, You can get a special 3/8 drive socket that has a square end on it that fits on the tap....rather than using a normal straight handle tap wrench. Makes it a lot easier...
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post #37 of 236 Old 09-10-2016, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Today I officially started the reassembly. The heads are arrive from Odessa Cylinders on Tuesday so I spent today getting as much done as I could for their arrival.

These are all the parts outside of the heads that I ordered, see my previous post for items and part numbers.

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Getting ready to swap out all the timing components, first I pulled out the tensioners. 2x 13mm held each one in.

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I used a cotter pin on the third tensioner to allow the sprokets to come out easier.

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Here are all the gears and chains once removed, plus a view inside with tensioner in place, tensioner removed and oil pump removed:

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post #38 of 236 Old 09-10-2016, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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After a little clean up, I pulled the heads (again) to start the real clean up job. All in all the block and piston heads were in good shape. I used WD-40 and green Scotch-Brite pads to clean all surfaces. The hardest one to clean was cylinder 2 where the valve seat dropped. There was the most carbon caked on to the piston head there.

Here are the before shots:

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3 hours later, and the after shots. The block surface does not look perfect but it is smooth to the touch:

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post #39 of 236 Old 09-10-2016, 11:11 PM
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Good to see someone making some progress! Looking great!

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post #40 of 236 Old 09-10-2016, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Now it was time to start putting things back together.

Working in reverse, I started with the oil pump then primary tensioner. Even though most of if dripped right back out, I poured some oil into the oil pump and gave it a few spins so it wouldn't start dry.

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Next up was the chain trifecta. Like the oil pump, I dipped the chains in clean motor oil before installing so they'd be pre-lubed. Because of that my hands were covered in oil and I wasn't able to take many photos of the process leading up to the install. Per the book, I turned the crank so cylinder #1 was at TDC. This positions a key on the crank to roughly the 2 o'clock position. Using colored chain links and aligning them to indicators on the sprokets - 6 o'clock on the lower (smaller) gear, 12 o'clock on the top (larger) gear - that positions you for your initial setup. The gear has 2 smaller sets of teeth behind it which lead up to the 2 cams. The forward set of teeth are for the driver side cam, and the backside set of teeth are for the passenger side cam.

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I used rubber bands to keep the chains in place while installing the gears. The crankshaft is slightly tapered on the bottom gear so you need a rubber mallet to gently tap it in to place. The top larger gear goes on easily.

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There are "windows" in the main gear where you align the 2 colored chain links through, for the cam chains.

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I was going to put the other 2 tensioners in but the pins that are holding them compressed stick out too far and I would not be able to put the timing cover on while I wait for the heads to arrive, so... this is as far as I got. Once the heads get here I'll be able to install the upper tensioners, chain guides, the cam gears and well, everything else.

Until then....

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post #41 of 236 Old 09-11-2016, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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I got to thinking about the knocking sound I heard when I bought the Jeep and how it was seemingly coming from the bottom of the engine, leading me to believe (and the mechanic at the shop) that there was a bad rod bearing. I knew there were a couple accessible rod caps with cylinder #1 at TDC, and I got a little antsy, so I pulled them - cylinders #3 and #8. To my pleasant surprise, both bearings and journals were in amazing shape. Below are shots of cylinder #8. The #3 one actually looked a little better if you can believe it.

So, here's the question... if this were your Jeep, would you go through and pull the rest of the caps off to make sure they are all in good shape? I'm going to order new bolts - the manual says these are one time use bolts - so should I order a whole set or just stick with the 2 I've pulled so far?

Also, the book says these should be tightened down to 20ft/lbs +90 degree turn. These bolts were very hard to break loose. Does that sound right to you guys?

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post #42 of 236 Old 09-14-2016, 07:38 AM
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Looking good! I hadn't even thought that I should replace the oil pump while I'm in mine, so I'm really glad I saw that. Going to be placing my parts order later today. I just have to cut my exhaust manifold to Y pipe bolts and I should be able to remove the heads on my '04. I think I'm going to have a machine shop rebuild mine and press in new valve seats with tighter clearance vs buying remanned heads. (mine didn't break like yours)

Those bearings do look pretty freaking clean. I think I'd just buy the bolts to put those 2 caps back on and leave it. Assembly lube when you reinstall them you think? I don't have experience that deep into an engine as of yet.

I think we watched the same youtube video showing the rubber band trick for timing these. That's how I hopefully will do mine, too.

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post #43 of 236 Old 09-14-2016, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hendrix9 View Post
Looking good! I hadn't even thought that I should replace the oil pump while I'm in mine, so I'm really glad I saw that. Going to be placing my parts order later today. I just have to cut my exhaust manifold to Y pipe bolts and I should be able to remove the heads on my '04. I think I'm going to have a machine shop rebuild mine and press in new valve seats with tighter clearance vs buying remanned heads. (mine didn't break like yours)

Those bearings do look pretty freaking clean. I think I'd just buy the bolts to put those 2 caps back on and leave it. Assembly lube when you reinstall them you think? I don't have experience that deep into an engine as of yet.

I think we watched the same youtube video showing the rubber band trick for timing these. That's how I hopefully will do mine, too.
I went back and forth on replacing the $100 oil pump, not actually knowing if I needed it or not. I'm glad I did, in comparison to the new one the stock pump is quite loose and has a bit of play. I'm aware there's probably some assembly lube or grease in there that's tightening it up, but it's a piece of mind I'm ok with.

I'm not sure what a job like that from a machine shop would cost, but the heads were only about $750 for both, shipped, with return shipping. I suppose if you don't need it though, there's no need.

I did end up buying a complete set of new bolts, even though I only need 4 total right now. At $2 or so a pop I was ok purchasing them in case I do them all. I'm not going to use assembly grease as there's a good amount of oil already covering them. I just took some fresh oil and did a heavy coating, then hand tightened them back for now.

And I'm pretty sure we did watch the same YouTube video... what a riot those two are. Very helpful though, not going to lie.

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post #44 of 236 Old 09-14-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanjaybar View Post
I went back and forth on replacing the $100 oil pump, not actually knowing if I needed it or not. I'm glad I did, in comparison to the new one the stock pump is quite loose and has a bit of play. I'm aware there's probably some assembly lube or grease in there that's tightening it up, but it's a piece of mind I'm ok with.

I'm not sure what a job like that from a machine shop would cost, but the heads were only about $750 for both, shipped, with return shipping. I suppose if you don't need it though, there's no need.

It definitely seems like cheap insurance replacing the oil pump though since all the lifters rely on oil pressure. Alot of work to let a $100 part potentially foul it. I'm with you.

Yeah, as long as the machine shop is less than $750ish I'm going to go with that. I like the idea of giving money to local business, as long as it's reasonably priced of course. My buddy's used this shop to rebuild a couple of VW 1.8t heads.

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post #45 of 236 Old 09-14-2016, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hendrix9 View Post
Yeah, as long as the machine shop is less than $750ish I'm going to go with that. I like the idea of giving money to local business, as long as it's reasonably priced of course. My buddy's used this shop to rebuild a couple of VW 1.8t heads.
I totally agree with that, I support local shops when I can. I've found they often exceed my expectations on service and quality too. Found an old local shop and had them do the rear end of my '01 Cherokee and the job was flawless. Didn't mind paying a little more for their solid work.

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