Smokey the 2005 WK 4.7L (Re) Build - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

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post #16 of 236 Old 08-23-2016, 12:22 PM
ggt1_02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjaybar View Post
I was debating checking all the rod bearings only because I feel like it's too good to be true that there's nothing noticeably wrong with any of them. I don't know how well you can tell from the pictures but there doesn't seem to be any major discoloration on any of the rod or crank journals which leads me to believe none of them completely overheated. I may even go as far to test clearances on them all too.
Just because there isn't discoloration doesn't mean there is not damage to the bearing or the crank. As long as there is oil flowing at the proper rate the parts will not get overly warm. That being said, if there is debris introduced in to the system from a broken component as yours has, there may be debris damage to the bearing or crank from said debris. I fell that it would be cheap insurance to pull the rod and main bearings out to verify their condition, and not just remove the caps but pull both sides out as they can be effected differently.


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post #17 of 236 Old 08-23-2016, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
nathanjaybar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggt1_02 View Post
Just because there isn't discoloration doesn't mean there is not damage to the bearing or the crank. As long as there is oil flowing at the proper rate the parts will not get overly warm. That being said, if there is debris introduced in to the system from a broken component as yours has, there may be debris damage to the bearing or crank from said debris. I fell that it would be cheap insurance to pull the rod and main bearings out to verify their condition, and not just remove the caps but pull both sides out as they can be effected differently.
Thanks for the advice, I'll probably end up doing what you recommended. It's more work now, but it's all apart and I've come this far so might as well be thorough.

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post #18 of 236 Old 08-23-2016, 07:37 PM
JRS621
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My $0.02:

You should see something in the oil if it was knocking that bad.

There is no reason to tear the bottom end down to check clearances.

I would inspect the bottom end for damage (you don't have to tear it all the way down to do this). I didn't see anything in the pick up screen and that is a good sign. If popping a rod cap or two off would make you feel better just make sure you torque them to spec when you but them back.

I would fix the head and leave the rest alone. There is no reason to drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on a vehicle you know zero about. The transmission could be slipping for all you know. Fix the head and see how it does. I'd be willing to bet there is no "rod knock" but if there is you're going to know about it real quick and in my mind that's much better than buying a long block and swapping it in.
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post #19 of 236 Old 08-24-2016, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
nathanjaybar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRS621 View Post
You should see something in the oil if it was knocking that bad.

There is no reason to tear the bottom end down to check clearances.

I would inspect the bottom end for damage (you don't have to tear it all the way down to do this). I didn't see anything in the pick up screen and that is a good sign. If popping a rod cap or two off would make you feel better just make sure you torque them to spec when you but them back.

I would fix the head and leave the rest alone. There is no reason to drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on a vehicle you know zero about. The transmission could be slipping for all you know. Fix the head and see how it does. I'd be willing to bet there is no "rod knock" but if there is you're going to know about it real quick and in my mind that's much better than buying a long block and swapping it in.
There was no debris or shards in the oil or oil pan (no metallic glimmer to it), and the pickup tube is in good shape with no signs of sludge, build-up or metal pieces. I saw all that as promising signs.

I'm going to try and pull the passenger side head tomorrow, cylinder 2 had the low compression (I believe ~45psi), so I'm curious to see that side first. Looking back I believe it was the intake lifter on that cylinder that was smashed.

Good point about the transmission, I plan to do a drain-and-fill (not a flush) on it when the engine is back up and running.

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post #20 of 236 Old 08-28-2016, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Got some good work done on the Jeep yesterday. The goal was to pull the head but going in to it I didn't realize how much needed to be done to get it off.


I pulled the belt tensioner off and hung the power steering pump off to the side.

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The harmonic balancer was quite a pain to get off. I ended up renting 3 different pullers to find one that would work. I had to use an end cap from a u-joint off my old Cherokee to keep the peg of the puller from going down the hole on the crank. It worked nicely but I could have used another set of hands to set it up.

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I took the 13 (I think) bolts holding on the timing chain cover and seeing as they come in 3 different sizes I bagged them into separate bags according to their tightening sequence so I know where they go back in. I thought it was much easier than poking them in a piece of cardboard with a "map" of their locations.

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I didn't see this the last time I pulled the valve cover off, but apparently when things when wrong the rocker shot up with enough force to put a hole in the cover. That's a nice $100 discovery.

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I pulled the sproket from the camshaft. Looks like things got hot and toasted some oil to the top half. I was planning on replacing all the gears, chains and tensioners any way.

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post #21 of 236 Old 08-28-2016, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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There's a cap that I believe the AC compressor mounts to that you need to remove to access one of the bolts to remove the tensioner guide. The one on the left required a torx bit, I don't recall the size.

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Took the head bolts out, which takes a little time as you're supposed to back them out 1/4 turn at a time in a specific order.

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I took the heat shield off the exhaust manifold right away just to check if there were any broken bolts, but thankfully all were in tact. Looks like the manifold is in good shape too.

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post #22 of 236 Old 08-28-2016, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Once the head came off it was pretty apparent what the problem is. Looks like one of the valve seats dropped on cylinder 2. It was all down hill from there.

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The good news is that all the piston heads look to be in decent shape. After some cleaning they should be good to go.

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post #23 of 236 Old 08-28-2016, 11:04 PM
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So it appears the dreaded valve seat drop is not limited to the 5.7 hemis.....

Looks like you lucked out, no damage to the short block. Just need a machine shop to do the heads for you, get all new parts and fresh gaskets, and slap it back together..
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post #24 of 236 Old 08-29-2016, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takman View Post
So it appears the dreaded valve seat drop is not limited to the 5.7 hemis.....

Looks like you lucked out, no damage to the short block. Just need a machine shop to do the heads for you, get all new parts and fresh gaskets, and slap it back together..
The WJ's 4.7 was always having dropped valves too after overheats. Just take goooood care of their cooling system...

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post #25 of 236 Old 08-29-2016, 10:44 AM
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Looks like you did luck out! Let us know where you end up getting the replacement heads from, too. I had looked around a bit a while back and also saw them in the 400ish dollar range.

I love looking at engine tear downs. Pretty sure I missed my calling to be some kind of mechanic. I'll be impatiently following along for the rebuild daydreaming of fixing mine! haha.

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post #26 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takman View Post
So it appears the dreaded valve seat drop is not limited to the 5.7 hemis.....

Looks like you lucked out, no damage to the short block. Just need a machine shop to do the heads for you, get all new parts and fresh gaskets, and slap it back together..
That's the hope. From what I've seen the rest of the block looks to be in good shape but I may end up pulling a rod cap off any way just to see how things look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix9 View Post
Looks like you did luck out! Let us know where you end up getting the replacement heads from, too. I had looked around a bit a while back and also saw them in the 400ish dollar range.

I love looking at engine tear downs. Pretty sure I missed my calling to be some kind of mechanic. I'll be impatiently following along for the rebuild daydreaming of fixing mine! haha.
Glad you like the posts! I have a handful of parts on order already that I know I'm going to need. I'll be sure to take pics and document where I got them from. I think I'm going to get the heads from Odessa Cylinder Head in Clearwater, FL. I've read a good number of posts from people who have used them from the Cherokee forum when I had my '01. They seem pretty reliable and the price is right for both heads, fully remanufactured and assembled with springs, valves, lifters and cams and a full gasket set with head bolts. I should be putting those on order tomorrow.

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post #27 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 06:20 AM
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Nathan,

@Hendrix9 pointed me towards your thread. The damage to my right head looks almost exactly the same as yours. It blew on Sunday and I started tearing into it as soon as I got it home.

I'm optimistic at this point that the damage is similar to yours and that I'll get away with a top-end rebuild, but won't know for sure until I get the head taken off, which I'm hoping to have done by the end of the week.

Funny part of my mess, is that I was already trying to psych myself up to do the valve cover gaskets and possibly the oil pan this weekend anyways (gaskets in my basement since last summer).

I'll be following your progress closely. Here's a link to my thread if you're interested.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...naded-3857721/

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post #28 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 06:45 AM
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A couple thoughts I would have. What caused the valve seat to drop - overheating? - and how do I fix that cause? Next, could the top end have caused the rod knock noise or should I look further?
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post #29 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xTroy View Post
Nathan,

@Hendrix9 pointed me towards your thread. The damage to my right head looks almost exactly the same as yours. It blew on Sunday and I started tearing into it as soon as I got it home.

I'm optimistic at this point that the damage is similar to yours and that I'll get away with a top-end rebuild, but won't know for sure until I get the head taken off, which I'm hoping to have done by the end of the week.

Funny part of my mess, is that I was already trying to psych myself up to do the valve cover gaskets and possibly the oil pan this weekend anyways (gaskets in my basement since last summer).

I'll be following your progress closely. Here's a link to my thread if you're interested.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...naded-3857721/
Oh man.
Looks like you and I are on very similar paths my friend. Seeing as I'm as far as I am, I'm all about the rebuild of the engine already sitting in your driveway. However, the one I'm working on has half the miles which is why I chose that route over a new one. It's quite the job to swap out both heads though, I'm not gonna lie. Doing the whole engine is probably very comparable... with a lot less bolts to keep track of.

If you were planning on doing the valve cover gaskets and oil pan, nows the time to do it!

Good luck, keep us posted on what you plan to do.

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post #30 of 236 Old 08-30-2016, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Before I ordered new heads I wanted to pull off the driver side just to make sure there was no damage to any of the pistons on that side. I tore in to it last night:

Got the sproket off the camshaft, this one looks a little better than the other side but I'll still be replacing it.

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To gain access to the upper bolt on the lower tensioner you have to remove this plastic keep from the head. The top tensioner requires the same torx bit to remove.

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I could have left it in place but I decided to remove the EGR valve to give me some more room to remove the head.

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Pulled the head bolts and we're ready to go... so I thought. There is a ground wire attached to the back of the head, below the EGR that I overlooked (13mm). Once that was off the head came right out.

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Once again, I pulled the exhaust manifold off to check the state of things. Looks like this one had a little bit of a leak. I've ordered new mounting bolts as these were all pretty brittle, I plan on reusing both manifolds.

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'06 WK 4.7L V8 4WD | Recently purchased '05 WK 4.7L V8 4WD
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