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Smokey the 2005 WK 4.7L (Re) Build

30K views 235 replies 16 participants last post by  nathanjaybar 
#1 ·
I've been looking for a project car for some time and came across a dark grey 2005 WK 4.7L 4WD on Craigslist with just over 100K miles on it. The description was minimal, and only stated there was a rod knock and low compression in cylinder 2. I figured what the heck and went to go take a look. I ended up buying it after poking around and hearing it "run". I figured since I've been driving and working on my '06 4.7L for just over a year now and love it, I might as well take this as a learning experience and see what happens.

I got it home, dove in and started documenting the project. I figured I would share as I go along. Perhaps this could help someone down the road and I wouldn't be surprised if some people here had some insight into this process.

As I said, it's a 2005 WK 4.7L in Dark Khaki Pearl, hence "Smokey". She doesn't actually smoke... at all... it would need to run to smoke. So, yeah...

Let me say I am no mechanic, and am doing all this work from home with whatever time I can find to work on it. I have a few pictures I'll post now with some descriptions and I will continue to post more as I take them.

This is the Jeep as it was when I went to go look at it:

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In tow:

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Dirty and clean engine bay:

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I started pulling things out, here is a shot with the intake, alternator and fan clutch pulled. There is still some freon in the A/C compressor so I can't completely remove it, I just unbolted it and pulled it to the side. At this point I started pulling the wiring harness on both sides and disconnecting the spark plugs and fuel injectors.

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This is right after pulling the fuel rail. The paper towels were there to catch any excess fuel:

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I unbolted the intake manifold and when I lifted it off I found a rats nest in the small space between the intake and the engine (before and after):

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Passenger side valve cover removed:

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#2 ·
At this point, I found the problem to cylinder #2. The part of the head that holds the lifter was smashed. I'm assuming there is some correlation between the rod knock and this. The lifter was at the bottom of the head and I found the broken part of the head floating around in there too:

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After I found the head needed to be replaced I cleaned up a little and put the valve cover back on. Next step is to take the oil pan off and see just how bad that spun bearing is, and if any of the rods are bent. If I'm dealing with a bent rod, I may reconsider what to do next. If the rods are fine I'll replace the bearings, and probably both heads with remanufactured, pre-assembled heads. Looks like they go for about $400 each online which is better than I thought it would be. From the looks of it I'll need to replace some sprockets, in which case I'll probably do a full timing chain/gear overhaul while I have it apart.

This is how she sits for now, until I can crawl under there and keep diggin:

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#7 ·
Lash adjuster gone bad, rocker jumped, head broken. Sadly it happens rather frequently on the 4.7 as they age.
I'll be curious to see if it's that, or if the valve seat started to drop which kept the valve from going all the way back up allowing for the slop for the rocker to jump off.

Low miles for the year, hope you can save it without having to do a full rebuild. I bought a '04 with 145k on it that supposedly had a bad 4.7 and I thought that mileage wasn't bad. Aside from confirming that mine has a blown headgasket but runs okay-ish I haven't made anywhere near the progress you have yet.

I've seen a couple WJ guys who had the valve hit the piston slightly from a dropped valve seat and they were successful in just sanding/buffing the dented piston and slapping it back together. All depending how much your time is worth vs your money I guess. Personally I don't have either right now! haha. Good luck!
 
#5 ·
Got a little bit of work done today. As I said before, I want to pull the oil pan and check out the rod bearings before I pull the heads. Wanted to clear up some space down there to work so I yanked the y-pipe:

I started by removing both front fender wells to gain better access to the exhaust manifolds. I loosened and removed the exhaust manifold to y-pipe bolts. I left one partly attached so it wouldn't fall when I got everything else unbolted.

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I supported the transmission with my jack and some wood blocks to protect it. You can see my extra-extra safety with the set of jacks even though the Jeep is on ramps.

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Here's the crossmember out. 12 bolts total.

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I disconnected the O2 sensors and unbolted the metal bracket that supports the exhaust. When I replaced my y-pipe in my '06 I discovered this was a LOT easier than trying to shimmy it forward out of the rubber grommet. It's only 2 nuts. Also, I opted to cut the wires on one of the O2 sensors. For anyone who's attempted to unclip that ONE pesky sensor that is tucked up towards the top of the transmission, you completely understand why I opted for this. This was a $40 decision I was happy to make after wrestling with it for almost 2 hours on the other Jeep. I'm pretty sure the sensors are original and should be replaced any way.

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Not knowing how long this whole project is going to take, I preferred the transmission was sitting as naturally as possible so I put the crossmember back in and removed the jack. I threw some foil on the open end of the muffler to keep dust and critters out.

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I did the same with the foil on the exhaust manifolds.

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That was all the time I had today, I'm going to pick it back up on Saturday. So, until then....
 
#8 ·
Ok, let me start off by saying if I never have to take the oil pan off of a 4.7L it will still be too soon.

I spent yesterday tearing in to the bottom end so I could get a better look at the rod bearings and see what the damage was down there. After almost 3 hours of peeling the windage tray from the oil pan, inch by inch, I finally got access. I absolutely had to drop the front axle to get the pan out. I did not remove the axle, I just disconnected the 3 mounting points and rotated it back, supporting it with jack stands so it wouldn't fall too far. I found out that this Jeep has the dreaded upper bushing issue and the top bushing is toast. I haven't wrapped my mind around that yet. It will need to be replaced before she gets put back together. So that's the bad news, however the good news (I think) is what I found when I got the pan off. I was expecting some discolored rod ends and a good amount of excessive wear, with metal flakes in the bottom of the pan... and I found none of that. It does look like the engine overheated, everything has a golden brown tint to it. However from what I can tell every bearing is in good shape with no unacceptable movement in any direction. I rotated the crank several times to test in all orientations and even reached up to feel the upper (piston side) rod bearings and everything is tight on that front too.

I'm confused.

I heard the engine run and there was a definite LOUD knocking coming from what sounded like the bottom end of the engine, on the driver side. The only thing I can think is that due to the broken head, something was knocking or hitting and the sound was being transferred through the engine which made it sound like it was coming from below. Let me say, I have not taken the valve cover off the driver side yet, so I don't know if there are broken lash adjusters or rockers.

I'm open to ideas.

Here's the upper front axle bushing that so conveniently needs to be replaced. I suppose this is the time to do it while it's all apart.

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It was extremely hard to disconnect the front driveshaft from the axle. Whoever was in here last went a little overboard with the loctite.

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To lighten the load of the front axle I removed the weight (I'm assuming a dampener of some sort) and drained the axle. I was planning on changing the oil any way as I'm pretty sure it was the stuff that came from the factory. It doesn't seem like the previous owner was keen on maintenance.

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This is how I supported the axle, it seemed to work pretty well. Also a shot of the front support disconnected from the frame. I ended up having to remove the bracket to get enough clearance to remove the pan.

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3 hours later and I got the pan separated from the gasket.

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The fruits of my labor from the day:

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I have crank and bearing pics I'll post shortly.
 
#12 ·
I heard the engine run and there was a definite LOUD knocking coming from what sounded like the bottom end of the engine, on the driver side. The only thing I can think is that due to the broken head, something was knocking or hitting and the sound was being transferred through the engine which made it sound like it was coming from below.

I'm open to ideas.
If you heard rod knock and Craigslist ad said rod knock, it is time for a re manufactured or used motor. You may be able to rebuild it but that means pulling the motor, pulling the crank, pulling all the main bearings, measuring everything, and then machining and replacing everything. Lots of time and money with no really good odds of long term success.

Excellent chance that one of your rods and bearings are toast. If the broken valve lifter was on the exhaust and the exhaust valve did not open that would create a tremendous amount of pressure and heat and easily cook a crank bearing.

My 2005 was purchased new and I replaced the valve lifters last year with new Mopar OEM's at 75,000 miles when I replaced the valve cover gaskets. I knew that the lifters were a weak point. If my engine had a rod knock I would replace it with a re manufactured Jasper or equivalent. To make it a bigger project I would replace it with a used engine from a low mileage totaled vehicle.

The problem I have is that I live in the rust belt and I will likely lose my Jeep to rust before anything huge - like engine or transmission issue - happens to it mechanically.

Good warranty on this engine. Take a moment and read through the reconditioning process steps in the engine description:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reman-99-07...Engine-/391539997503?fits=Make:Jeep#vi-ilComp
 
#10 ·
I wasn't planning on working on the Jeep today but curiosity got the best of me and I went out to pull the valve cover off the driver side. I was honestly thinking I'd find a wreck under there like the other side. Apart from a few unevenly worn cam journals, it looks to be in good shape. Looks like I'm going to end up pulling the heads off to see what shape the pistons are in, then get to ordering new heads.

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#11 ·
If this were me I would pull the engine and replace the bearings on the rods and crank. One of them, rod or main, could have spun partially or fully which may cause a knock.

Also, I would not leave the diff empty of oil for too long, the gears will rust with out the oil in an open environment.
 
#15 ·
Also, I would not leave the diff empty of oil for too long, the gears will rust with out the oil in an open environment.
Good to know, thanks. I put the fill and drain plugs back in so the diff is not breathing free, but perhaps I'll fill it back up now regardless. It's actually a lot lighter than I thought it would be so I don't think ~2qt of fluid will make it unmanageable.

Excellent chance that one of your rods and bearings are toast. If the broken valve lifter was on the exhaust and the exhaust valve did not open that would create a tremendous amount of pressure and heat and easily cook a crank bearing.
I was debating checking all the rod bearings only because I feel like it's too good to be true that there's nothing noticeably wrong with any of them. I don't know how well you can tell from the pictures but there doesn't seem to be any major discoloration on any of the rod or crank journals which leads me to believe none of them completely overheated. I may even go as far to test clearances on them all too.

I also don't recall which lifter was smashed, exhaust or intake. I'm not sure if you can tell from the photo.

I think I'd pull the broken head off and see if the piston made contact with the valve before I made my decision, but I definitely don't disagree with RCS1300.
That's one of the next things on my list to do, pull the heads. What are you looking for in this? Obviously any signs the top of the pistons have had contact with the valves, but anything else?

Appreciate all the comments, everyone.
 
#13 ·
Promar engine (the seller in the ebay link) is also where I was going to get a remanned from if I had to get one, but mostly because they aren't that far from me in CT. If something's wrong with the reman I'd want to be able to get face to face with the company. Just IMO.

I think I'd pull the broken head off and see if the piston made contact with the valve before I made my decision, but I definitely don't disagree with RCS1300.

I keep going back and forth on trying to just replace my headgaskets and see if it'll run but it's a ***** of a job to not even guarantee success. My jeep sat for long time after overheating. Price difference being 1500ish vs a reman... it's a tough call when money's tight.
 
#14 ·
I had no idea about the lifter issues...I've only owned my jeep for 4 months....but I have learned a lot this forum...its good to know.

However.....I think there is something to be said about maintenance here...

Not changing your oil frequently, or running the engine low on oil, is going to be bad for any engine. And I am willing to bet the previous owner(s) of Smokey didn't maintain it well. And if there is a weak point in the engine...lack of oil, or oil that has too many miles it, will exploit that weakness.

my 2005 grand cherokee has 146,000 miles on it. I bought it from my father in law, who had every service done on time by the dealer. It runs perfect, not a single thing wrong with it. No major engine work done to it, never had the lifters changed.
 
#18 ·
My $0.02:

You should see something in the oil if it was knocking that bad.

There is no reason to tear the bottom end down to check clearances.

I would inspect the bottom end for damage (you don't have to tear it all the way down to do this). I didn't see anything in the pick up screen and that is a good sign. If popping a rod cap or two off would make you feel better just make sure you torque them to spec when you but them back.

I would fix the head and leave the rest alone. There is no reason to drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on a vehicle you know zero about. The transmission could be slipping for all you know. Fix the head and see how it does. I'd be willing to bet there is no "rod knock" but if there is you're going to know about it real quick and in my mind that's much better than buying a long block and swapping it in.
 
#19 ·
You should see something in the oil if it was knocking that bad.

There is no reason to tear the bottom end down to check clearances.

I would inspect the bottom end for damage (you don't have to tear it all the way down to do this). I didn't see anything in the pick up screen and that is a good sign. If popping a rod cap or two off would make you feel better just make sure you torque them to spec when you but them back.

I would fix the head and leave the rest alone. There is no reason to drop thousands upon thousands of dollars on a vehicle you know zero about. The transmission could be slipping for all you know. Fix the head and see how it does. I'd be willing to bet there is no "rod knock" but if there is you're going to know about it real quick and in my mind that's much better than buying a long block and swapping it in.
There was no debris or shards in the oil or oil pan (no metallic glimmer to it), and the pickup tube is in good shape with no signs of sludge, build-up or metal pieces. I saw all that as promising signs.

I'm going to try and pull the passenger side head tomorrow, cylinder 2 had the low compression (I believe ~45psi), so I'm curious to see that side first. Looking back I believe it was the intake lifter on that cylinder that was smashed.

Good point about the transmission, I plan to do a drain-and-fill (not a flush) on it when the engine is back up and running.
 
#20 ·
Got some good work done on the Jeep yesterday. The goal was to pull the head but going in to it I didn't realize how much needed to be done to get it off.

I pulled the belt tensioner off and hung the power steering pump off to the side.

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The harmonic balancer was quite a pain to get off. I ended up renting 3 different pullers to find one that would work. I had to use an end cap from a u-joint off my old Cherokee to keep the peg of the puller from going down the hole on the crank. It worked nicely but I could have used another set of hands to set it up.

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I took the 13 (I think) bolts holding on the timing chain cover and seeing as they come in 3 different sizes I bagged them into separate bags according to their tightening sequence so I know where they go back in. I thought it was much easier than poking them in a piece of cardboard with a "map" of their locations.

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I didn't see this the last time I pulled the valve cover off, but apparently when things when wrong the rocker shot up with enough force to put a hole in the cover. That's a nice $100 discovery.

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I pulled the sproket from the camshaft. Looks like things got hot and toasted some oil to the top half. I was planning on replacing all the gears, chains and tensioners any way.

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#21 ·
There's a cap that I believe the AC compressor mounts to that you need to remove to access one of the bolts to remove the tensioner guide. The one on the left required a torx bit, I don't recall the size.

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Took the head bolts out, which takes a little time as you're supposed to back them out 1/4 turn at a time in a specific order.

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I took the heat shield off the exhaust manifold right away just to check if there were any broken bolts, but thankfully all were in tact. Looks like the manifold is in good shape too.

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#22 ·
Once the head came off it was pretty apparent what the problem is. Looks like one of the valve seats dropped on cylinder 2. It was all down hill from there.

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The good news is that all the piston heads look to be in decent shape. After some cleaning they should be good to go.

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#25 ·
Looks like you did luck out! Let us know where you end up getting the replacement heads from, too. I had looked around a bit a while back and also saw them in the 400ish dollar range.

I love looking at engine tear downs. Pretty sure I missed my calling to be some kind of mechanic. I'll be impatiently following along for the rebuild daydreaming of fixing mine! haha.
 
#27 ·
Nathan,
@Hendrix9 pointed me towards your thread. The damage to my right head looks almost exactly the same as yours. It blew on Sunday and I started tearing into it as soon as I got it home.

I'm optimistic at this point that the damage is similar to yours and that I'll get away with a top-end rebuild, but won't know for sure until I get the head taken off, which I'm hoping to have done by the end of the week.

Funny part of my mess, is that I was already trying to psych myself up to do the valve cover gaskets and possibly the oil pan this weekend anyways (gaskets in my basement since last summer).

I'll be following your progress closely. Here's a link to my thread if you're interested.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/top-end-grenaded-3857721/
 
#29 ·
Nathan,

@Hendrix9 pointed me towards your thread. The damage to my right head looks almost exactly the same as yours. It blew on Sunday and I started tearing into it as soon as I got it home.

I'm optimistic at this point that the damage is similar to yours and that I'll get away with a top-end rebuild, but won't know for sure until I get the head taken off, which I'm hoping to have done by the end of the week.

Funny part of my mess, is that I was already trying to psych myself up to do the valve cover gaskets and possibly the oil pan this weekend anyways (gaskets in my basement since last summer).

I'll be following your progress closely. Here's a link to my thread if you're interested.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/top-end-grenaded-3857721/
Oh man.
Looks like you and I are on very similar paths my friend. Seeing as I'm as far as I am, I'm all about the rebuild of the engine already sitting in your driveway. However, the one I'm working on has half the miles which is why I chose that route over a new one. It's quite the job to swap out both heads though, I'm not gonna lie. Doing the whole engine is probably very comparable... with a lot less bolts to keep track of.

If you were planning on doing the valve cover gaskets and oil pan, nows the time to do it!

Good luck, keep us posted on what you plan to do.
 
#30 ·
Before I ordered new heads I wanted to pull off the driver side just to make sure there was no damage to any of the pistons on that side. I tore in to it last night:

Got the sproket off the camshaft, this one looks a little better than the other side but I'll still be replacing it.

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To gain access to the upper bolt on the lower tensioner you have to remove this plastic keep from the head. The top tensioner requires the same torx bit to remove.

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I could have left it in place but I decided to remove the EGR valve to give me some more room to remove the head.

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Pulled the head bolts and we're ready to go... so I thought. There is a ground wire attached to the back of the head, below the EGR that I overlooked (13mm). Once that was off the head came right out.

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Once again, I pulled the exhaust manifold off to check the state of things. Looks like this one had a little bit of a leak. I've ordered new mounting bolts as these were all pretty brittle, I plan on reusing both manifolds.

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#31 ·
These piston heads look better than the other side, but I'm not surprised as this side is not the one with the problem. Before I put new heads on I'll be cleaning the top of the pistons for my own piece of mind. If anyone has done this or knows how, I'm open to suggestions.

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This is how she currently sits. I actually rested the heads back on the block secured by 2 head bolts on each side, with the valve covers and timing cover on to protect it, hopefully better than tin foil. I think it'll be a week+ before the heads will get here. I'll post pics of parts that come in and possibly the axle upper bushing replacement when I tackle it this weekend.

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#34 ·
Before I put new heads on I'll be cleaning the top of the pistons for my own piece of mind. If anyone has done this or knows how, I'm open to suggestions.
I use Carburetor cleaner. Spray it on and let it soak...repeat a few times. Should break it up enough so it comes off in large chunks...

Don't use anything metal to scrape it off...as you could damage the cylinder walls, or pistons....Use a plastic scraper....years ago i bought some sort of special scraper from a guy , specifically for this...made out of some sort of fiberglass epoxy resin.. don't know what it was called.

Then after its scraped, take the the big stuff out with a rag...then to get the small leftover bits out, use a shop vac to suck it out...

Also, would be a good idea to Run a Tap through all the cylinder bolt threads in the block.....they can get a bit deformed over the years, from the heads lifting...especially if it was overheated...and also full of dirt and grime and coolant when pulling off the heads etc...

that way when you put the new head bolts in, they go in nice and smooth...

Get a few bottles of brake parts cleaner, use the little plastic spray straw that comes with it, put it down the thread hole and spray until it pours out....use a compressed air blow gun, and blow out the hole......take your tap, spray some WD40 on it, and run it down the hole.....blow out the hole, and run the tap down again. Finally, spray brake clean again, and blow out the hole with compressed air.

You will be surprised how much junk comes out the threads..
 
#32 ·
Over the past couple days I've ordered pretty much all the parts I need from Amazon and RockAuto. Here's a list:

Cylinder heads (x2) with gaskets and new head bolts: eBay Odessa Cylinder Heads, Clearwater, FL - $785 (Covers shipping and core return)

Amazon
Exhaust manifold mounting bolts: DORMAN 03218 - $18.28
Timing Cover Gasket Kit: $34.19
Oil Pump: MOPAR 53020827AC - $98.94
Water Pump: GATES 43263 - $29.89
EGR Valve: DORMAN 911206 - $27.99
Windage Tray (Oil pan gasket): MOPAR 53020675AE - $33.03

RockAuto
Thermostat: MOPAR 68174083AA - $15.33
Timing Chain Set (Full Kit w/ gears): ENGINETECH TS393A - $214.79
Upper Radiator Hose: Gates 23037 - $6.43
Lower Radiator Hose: Gates 23038 - $9.48
PVC Valve: MOPAR 53032800AA - $7.35
Spark Plugs: Champion RC12MCC4 - $1.32 (x8)
Fuel Injector O-Rings: FEL-PRO ES70599 - $2.26 (x4)

Total: $1,292.10

The last thing I have to order is one O2 sensor and I should have everything I need to put it back together. I'll snap a pic when all the above come in, which should be some time next week.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for the source list and write up. I'm about to replace the heads on my daughter in law's 07 WK and have been looking at Rock Auto for the parts. Nice find for the Odessa Head package, that in itself will save her over $200. I didn't even think about new exhaust manifold bolts, that's a smart move I will duplicate.
 
#36 ·
When say Tap, I mean a Tap with the exact diameter and thread pitch as the head bolts.

Also, You can get a special 3/8 drive socket that has a square end on it that fits on the tap....rather than using a normal straight handle tap wrench. Makes it a lot easier...
 
#37 ·
Today I officially started the reassembly. The heads are arrive from Odessa Cylinders on Tuesday so I spent today getting as much done as I could for their arrival.

These are all the parts outside of the heads that I ordered, see my previous post for items and part numbers.

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Getting ready to swap out all the timing components, first I pulled out the tensioners. 2x 13mm held each one in.

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I used a cotter pin on the third tensioner to allow the sprokets to come out easier.

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Here are all the gears and chains once removed, plus a view inside with tensioner in place, tensioner removed and oil pump removed:

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