Oxygen Sensor? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
RonRock
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Oxygen Sensor?

Hello group. I am going to change all 4 Oxygen sensors in my 05 Grand Cherokee 3.7 V6.

I have done a search and was unable to find much that pertains exactly to the O2 sensors. But it does seem to me that there is agreement that I need to stick with NTK sensors. Is this correct? Are the Bosch bad for this engine? Are the NTK and NGK sensors the same? Seems that I have read that they are the same, but want to verify before ordering.

I have found several different part numbers for the O2 sensors, as well as different suggestions of what numbers I need.

Are all 4 sensors the same? Is there 2 & 2? Or maybe even all different for all 4? I've seen all combinations suggested depending where I look.

So here is what I have concluded so far, and I may be completely wrong with this which is why I ask.

From my research I need 2 NTK 23160 Upstream left & right
2 NTK 23159 Downstream left & right

These are from Rock Auto so I'm not confident in the choice. But the price is hard to beat. I'd prefer to buy locally and get the job done, but would cost way more money. I have more time than money. But on that thought I'd rather buy from Amazon because of their fast shipping. But don't trust their part numbers at all.

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post #2 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 01:28 PM
RCS1300
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I recommend going with OEM mopar sensors. moparpartsdiscounted.
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
RonRock
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Thanks for the reply.

I thought that I read that NTK or NGK was the original supplier for the O2 sensors. True?

I looked at moparsdiscounted and it looks like there are 2 different O2 sensors needed, not a very user friendly website. They actually list several more, but on closer look they have some of the same part numbers.

Bottom line is that their prices are twice that of RA so if it is true that NTK is the same as OEM I'll go there.
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 03:34 PM
90grandoneer
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NTK is a division of NGK and they are the suppliers for the factory Mopar units, except at a much lower price. Go with whatever you're comfortable with though. FWIW, you may want to check out this thread for a little more insight into O2's.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/o...rimer-1182446/
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 03:35 PM
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OEM is used as we can NOT afford comebacks...

Experiance (many years)
You may have the origional sensor manufacturer but that is no guarantee the same sensor is sold to you and jeep, their tooling may be different between OEM and aftermarket.... meaning the specs - go no go tolerances are not consistent.

NTK could make OEM parts in Wisconsin for jeep and make their aftermarket line in N.J.
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRock View Post

I looked at moparsdiscounted and it looks like there are 2 different O2 sensors needed, not a very user friendly website. They actually list several more, but on closer look they have some of the same part numbers.

Bottom line is that their prices are twice that of RA so if it is true that NTK is the same as OEM I'll go there.
Email the parts supplier - Jon. He will tell you the right part to order. I have spent over $5,500 with this vendor over four years reconditioning my 2005 WK (wheel bearings, brakes, suspension, exhaust manifolds, tail pipes/muffler, fuel pump, radiator and hoses, O2 sensors, ignition coils, etc). My recommendation is do not change them or change them with OEM. This is a very important sensor for fuel/air mixture. Not a place to "save" money. All sensors should be OEM. Go aftermarket on the things not involved in electronics like brakes, suspension, etc.
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-12-2017, 10:02 PM
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Though NTK makes the O2 sensors for Mopar, what they sell in the aftermarket is often quite different. The sensors often don't even _look_ the same side by side. I also suggest genuine Mopar sensors for that reason.

PM me or email me at kolak@aol.com for pricing - I offer excellent discounts on Mopar parts.

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post #8 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 01:08 AM
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Personally I'd trust the quality of a respected aftermarket brand more than "OEM" Jeep, but that's just me. Even if you prefer to get them from Jeep for whatever reason you may as well go with cheaper aftermarket ones for the downstream sensors as they're just to check if the cats are working. That's assuming there's much of a savings for you, up here O2 sensors were stupidly expensive the last time I bought some and they were 1/5 the price for the same parts in the US.

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post #9 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
NTK is a division of NGK and they are the suppliers for the factory Mopar units, except at a much lower price. Go with whatever you're comfortable with though. FWIW, you may want to check out this thread for a little more insight into O2's.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/o...rimer-1182446/

Good read, thank you for the pointer and taking the time to do the thread.

So in the thread you mention that you found the Bosch not to work at all for the upstream two. So I'll scratch them for sure. But you say that you replaced the upstream 2 with NTK's. Am I correct that you left the Bosch in the downstream? Not that it matters, I'll just stay away from Bosch I'm just curious.

Are the NTK's that you installed from a parts counter? The thread reads like that is the case, but I have several here advising me to go through a Mopar supplier. So far they are twice the price of a online seller (Amazon, Rock Auto)

I'd love to go to my local and buy them, get the car done and move on. But as always money is a part of the decision.
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRock View Post
Good read, thank you for the pointer and taking the time to do the thread.

So in the thread you mention that you found the Bosch not to work at all for the upstream two. So I'll scratch them for sure. But you say that you replaced the upstream 2 with NTK's. Am I correct that you left the Bosch in the downstream? Not that it matters, I'll just stay away from Bosch I'm just curious.

Are the NTK's that you installed from a parts counter? The thread reads like that is the case, but I have several here advising me to go through a Mopar supplier. So far they are twice the price of a online seller (Amazon, Rock Auto)

I'd love to go to my local and buy them, get the car done and move on. But as always money is a part of the decision.
Yes, I left the Bosch O2's on the downstream side. They weren't causing the problem, just the Bosch fronts.

The NTK's I used were over the parts counter ones, and they've been working fine for almost 48,000 miles. As I said earlier though, you should do whatever you're comfortable with. Some aftermarket parts by the same manufacturer are indeed different from each other. A great example of this is the Hemi Champion spark plugs....the dealer ones (black top) are different than the aftermarket (silver top) ones. The aftermarket ones would, in many cases, cause stalling in the 07 Hemi's. There is a veeeerrrry long thread on this forum dealing with this particular subject. Both of these plugs carried the same part number too.

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post #11 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 04:33 PM
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Good luck, I crawled under there yesterday. It looks miserable to get them out unless you have a lift at home.
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post #12 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPMAN123 View Post
Good luck, I crawled under there yesterday. It looks miserable to get them out unless you have a lift at home.

It's a MOFU! Unbelievable how hard it is to do such a seemingly simple job. I do have a lift and it was still a bitc**. My lift is a center post hydraulic and the lift arms were in just the perfectly wrong position!

One thing I will pass on for anyone that may cross this path that I did not see mentioned, it is much easier to access the connectors for the Upstream sensors if you move the inner panel over the tires. I already had the tires off for the brake job I was doing at the same time, so it was easy enough to pop a couple of the plastic retainers and flex the inner panel out of the way. Gave me better access, still not easy by any means, but better.

I was able to find the NTK's locally at O'Rielly's at not much higher cost than online, so I went with them. I need to get this job done so that I can move on. Hopefully the NTK's are good. Haven't started the car yet.
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-13-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPMAN123 View Post
Good luck, I crawled under there yesterday. It looks miserable to get them out unless you have a lift at home.
This is true, especially the upstream ones!!

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post #14 of 15 Old 10-14-2017, 12:46 AM
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The downstream sensors also can alter fuel trim. There are there not only to monitor the health of the converters but to _protect_ their health. So if the downstream sensor senses a condition which could be damaging to the converters, they will countermand the output of the upstream sensors.

Often times people will replace the upstream sensors in an effort to regain lost economy due to aged, sluggish sensors. The results can be poor until the downstream sensors are replaced as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore View Post
Personally I'd trust the quality of a respected aftermarket brand more than "OEM" Jeep, but that's just me. Even if you prefer to get them from Jeep for whatever reason you may as well go with cheaper aftermarket ones for the downstream sensors as they're just to check if the cats are working. That's assuming there's much of a savings for you, up here O2 sensors were stupidly expensive the last time I bought some and they were 1/5 the price for the same parts in the US.

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post #15 of 15 Old 10-14-2017, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
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The downstream sensors also can alter fuel trim. There are there not only to monitor the health of the converters but to _protect_ their health. So if the downstream sensor senses a condition which could be damaging to the converters, they will countermand the output of the upstream sensors.
Sure, but things need to be quite out of wack for that to happen, and I imagine you'd start getting codes. If things are getting close enough to those limits for (potentially) looser tolerances of the O2 sensor to put you over the limit then you've already got other issues.

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