N23 Recall Issue? No 4-Low! - Page 65 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WK Grand Cherokee & XK Commander Forum > N23 Recall Issue? No 4-Low!

FS: Jeep Fog Light LED Bulbs! Several Brightness Options! SPARTAN LOCKERS are on sale BIG TIME at ROCKRIDGE 4WD!Yukon Ultimate 35 axle kit for c/clip axles with Yukon Zip

Reply
Unread 01-19-2014, 08:02 AM   #961
MikeJeep09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 231
I was thinking of trading mine in but now(from an earlier post) someone said that even the dealers are becoming aware of this problem and do not want Jeeps or will give you very little on a trade in. Just my luck. Still waiting for people to wake up and try 4 lo but that won't happen until people go to trade in their soccer mom suv.

MikeJeep09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 09:32 AM   #962
Blown7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouC View Post
What a load of tech nonsense all this because CC thinks you aren't smart enough to shift a damn shift lever. I was considering a WK II for my wife's next one but after this fiasco no way.
Well ...no... that isn't close to the reason at all.

There are a few reasons..... namely the Federal Government mandated that EVERY new vehicle sold after 2012 shall have some form of ESP (Electronic Stability Control) so the years leading up to 2012 the manufacturers were testing and designing systems to meet these standards.

Second... (again) the Federal Government has this little thing they call CAFE standards... so to meet that the manufacturers need to find any way to save gas... again .....what better way is a lightweight 4 wheel drive system designed with a "On Demand" feature????

You guessed it... Electronically controlled transfer case....

Third wiring is lighter and never needs adjustment...



One of the best ways from a manufacturers stand point is with a electronically controlled transfer case. On a pure engineering level it is the perfect answer.....

And in theory it should be....

In real life with all the constraints from outside sources the code to control the case isn't simple.... It's a frickin' nightmare....

So will it ever get better with ANY manufacturer???

They may say so.. but for me and many others the only answer is to buy and keep the older vehicles running longer....

So the NUMBER 1 reason for all this BS...... lies squarely with the good ol' USA forcing the manufacturers to find alternative transfer cases.






.
__________________
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the meta-cognitive ability to realize their mistakes.
Blown7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 10:09 AM   #963
LouC
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 1,311
Ah, well that might be the 'real' reason, but there are other ways to accomplish the same goals, in that both the Wrangler and various Toyota trucks and SUVs manage to have manual tcase shifters and have skid control, and in 16 years of use I have never had to adjust the linkage on my NV 242 in the 98 ZJ.
Looks like I'll be limited to the Wrangler, or older Jeeps, or gasp (a Toyota Tacoma) for my next one. If they can't get this right thats a vote of NO CONFIDENCE from me....
__________________
2007 WK Limited Hemi QDII
1998 ZJ Laredo 4.0 Selectrac
LouC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 11:32 AM   #964
oldphart
Junior Member
 
oldphart's Avatar
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown7 View Post
KWP 2000 is a Protocol not a tool. It's a "language" (like English ..if you want to call it that) that is used to communicate with the various modules (or Nodes) on the Can Bus.

protocol

noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
In computer science, a set of rules or procedures for transmitting data between electronic devices, such as computers. In order for computers to exchange information, there must be a preexisting agreement as to how the information will be structured and how each side will send and receive it. Without a protocol, a transmitting computer, for example, could be sending its data in 8-bit packets while the receiving computer might expect the data in 16-bit packets. Protocols are established by international or industrywide organizations. Perhaps the most important computer protocol is OSI (Open Systems Interconnection), a set of guidelines for implementing networking communications between computers. The most important sets of Internet protocols are TCP/IP, HTTP, and FTP.





Think of the Can Bus as a land based telephone line....and for example two people are having a conversation on the telephone and both are speaking english.... so to define that conversation ....it is defined as... "The English language being spoken on a land telephone line that is understood by both parties at either end of the line."

The same telephone line doesn't care if English, French, or Spanish is being spoken and as long as both parties at each "end" of the line understand each other.

There are quite a few different protocols used on Can Buses.. I'm not going to go into that here that's what Google is for.

The models years affected use KWP 2000 the newer years 2011+ are Powernet and some state of the art buses are using UDS and Flexray .

Now tools are the telephone itself, it can be Star Mobile, WiTech, Star Scan, Snap On, OBD scanners of every sort.

Then there is the "ELM" as very low cost chip that can be programmed to do alot of things.. but you have to be very programmer savvy.





.
Excellent analogy! Thank you for sharing.

I have the "ELM" was considering the KWP2000(software?) with hardware(telephone), but it seems that all the supporting documentation doesn't address our application. Everything I have read indicates that codes beyond standard default reading/clearing are manufacture specific. I cannot find any info on those. Appears that "hacking" is the only way to gain that info.

Do you know if the FDCM flash info is on a eeprom, if so, which variety? I haven't had the opportunity to open one yet.
oldphart is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 03:21 PM   #965
Blown7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldphart View Post

Do you know if the FDCM flash info is on a eeprom, if so, which variety? I haven't had the opportunity to open one yet.
I have one open.... I can't remember correctly ..I'm thinking freescale chip

http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Blow...ml?sort=3&o=15


.
__________________
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the meta-cognitive ability to realize their mistakes.
Blown7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 05:45 PM   #966
Jason911
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: , Wisconsin
Posts: 366
Add fuel to the fire: about two weeks back I picked up a used FDCM from a solid shop and sent it out to the East Coast to have Blown7 Reflash it and send it back to me. Turns out the module never had the flash down to it, so he sent it back to me. Swapped it out with the original one today. Turned on key, shifted to N on the trans and pulled up on the T-case lever. It works!!!!! Did it about 5 more times to be sure and to cycle it. Will try again tomorrow. I'm still on my original T case actuator, and after reading everybody else's threads plus the wonderful input from Jeff - it leads one to believe that it truly is a software issue and not a hardware issue. Even if I did not have a working 4-low, I was not going to go to the extremes of trading it in like some of the other members of this forum. I like my jeep, and plan on driving it for at least another year, maybe two.
Jason911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 07:24 PM   #967
joshmantesso13
Registered User
2007 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason911 View Post
Add fuel to the fire: about two weeks back I picked up a used FDCM from a solid shop and sent it out to the East Coast to have Blown7 Reflash it and send it back to me. Turns out the module never had the flash down to it, so he sent it back to me. Swapped it out with the original one today. Turned on key, shifted to N on the trans and pulled up on the T-case lever. It works!!!!! Did it about 5 more times to be sure and to cycle it. Will try again tomorrow. I'm still on my original T case actuator, and after reading everybody else's threads plus the wonderful input from Jeff - it leads one to believe that it truly is a software issue and not a hardware issue. Even if I did not have a working 4-low, I was not going to go to the extremes of trading it in like some of the other members of this forum. I like my jeep, and plan on driving it for at least another year, maybe two.
i did the exact same thing, i bought one from a salvage yard plugged it in and no problems since, so it is obviously software related. the dealer is still not buying it though......i even prove it to them and they still said I'm wrong....lol
joshmantesso13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #968
SilentDrifter
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colby, Wisconsin
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshmantesso13 View Post
i did the exact same thing, i bought one from a salvage yard plugged it in and no problems since, so it is obviously software related. the dealer is still not buying it though......i even prove it to them and they still said I'm wrong....lol
How long ago did you do this? I might have to keep this option open as well.
SilentDrifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 08:15 PM   #969
joshmantesso13
Registered User
2007 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentDrifter View Post
How long ago did you do this? I might have to keep this option open as well.
i bought it almost 2 months ago, you just have to make sure that the jeep it came out of didn't have the recall done. there is also 2 versions of the box one for QT and one for QD2. the QD2 part# should end in 199 followed by 2 letters and the QT one is 129 then 2 letters
joshmantesso13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2014, 08:18 PM   #970
joshmantesso13
Registered User
2007 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown7 View Post
So now I'm overwhelmed with PM stuff, and just don't have time to get to everyone.

I did some actual WK parts book digging and found this.... (the X's listed in the part numbers stand for additional numbers or letters I didn't type)

There are three separate part numbers for the FDCM ..
One is for the SRT only P/N 050300XXXX
don't concern yourself with that one.

Second is P/N 56044129AA-AM-AX this is for sales code (DHX,DS7)
DHX = NVG 245 Transfer case
DS7 = Conventional differential front axle (No limited slip, Quadra -XXX (track or Drive I can't remember)

Third is P/N 56044199AA-AK-AX this is for sales code (DHX, DSG)
DHX = NVG 245 Transfer case
DSG = Axle Electric limited slip differential, front. (Again Quadra Trac or Drive -XXXXX or whatever is more expensive....)

The bottom two are the only part numbers you need to worry about, check yours first and then try to find the suitable replacement.
(Actually the last three numerals are the only necessary numerals that need be concerned with (I.E. 129 or 199)

Now I'm not seeing anywhere where axle ratio comes into play with the FDCM so it probably learns it from the FCM and if you get MIL's from installing a junk yard FDCM where the axle ratio of the junk yard Jeep could be different from yours and the FDCM should eventually figure it out. If not there is a vehicle reconfiguration mode in Star Mobile that could be used, but you'll need to find someone that has one .. and a dealer probably won't help much there.. I won't go into a long winded diatribe about dealers not doing everything by the book...

I do have friends on the LXforums that do this stuff with their own StMo's so maybe we can find someone reasonably close to you to do this...
It will take a little doing though...
Hope this helps
joshmantesso13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2014, 10:01 AM   #971
jjarvis0007
Registered User
2005 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NLR, AR
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollindom View Post
As of today Chrysler has 87 transfer case actuators in stock, and there are 1696 currently ordered. If the actuator is the fix, we are boned for some time to come.
Its not the fix. You'll be waiting just to get disappointed.
jjarvis0007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2014, 12:24 PM   #972
BJMOLD
Registered User
2010 WK 
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: YAMBA, New South Wales
Posts: 103
A question from my legal mate.As this problem arose from the worldwide N23 safety recall, how do we know if this dodgy reflash has actually fixed the problem of the transfercase moving into neutral?Have they CF just intentionally locked out neutral and caused other problems as well.Has anybody asked CF USA if the reflash was succesfull in solving the problem?Maybe someone should ask your NHTSA do they need proof the safety recall solved the problem because its certainly caused other safety concerns,eg what happens if you and your family are in heavy snow and no low range.etc,etc
The hole CF are digging for themselves is huge the brand damage is huge and will get worse.

Last edited by BJMOLD; 01-20-2014 at 02:33 PM..
BJMOLD is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2014, 01:04 PM   #973
CavallinoRed
Member
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjarvis0007 View Post
Its not the fix. You'll be waiting just to get disappointed.
Is the cracked circuit board in the actuator itself or in the transfer case control module under the back seat?

If its in the actuator and they have not updated the design would explain why replacing it does not always work as the circuit board of the replacement might sometime crack as well.
CavallinoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2014, 01:06 PM   #974
LouC
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 1,311
The cheap bastids should have just replaced the circuit board.
They are in no position to alienate their loyal customers and I've been a Jeep owner more than 15 years.
Like I said my next 4x4 for sure is NOT going to have electronic 4x4 of any kind, I don't care about the idiotic reasoning why we have to take it. Maybe they could leave off needless gadgets (auto dimming lights, auto wipers, etc who the hell needs that) leave that off give me the damn shift lever or else I'll buy something else. Mine works too by the way, but I can't stand how they are handling this. They (auto companies) think we are all stupid and don't know how they operate.
__________________
2007 WK Limited Hemi QDII
1998 ZJ Laredo 4.0 Selectrac
LouC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-20-2014, 01:09 PM   #975
zc911
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: brampton, ontario
Posts: 204
Blown7 your PM mail box is full, can you Pm me or email me? zc911@hotmail.com
I'd like to have a working FDCM before i bother even trying my 4wdLO again. it worked 3 weeks after but i haven't tried since.

joshmantesso13 - sent you a PM
zc911 is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.