Lost My Trust - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
rsurran
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2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
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Lost My Trust

So I was parallel parked in a line of cars at the curb. I got in to leave, started the engine and eased it in to reverse. Nothing, no engagement. I waited a second, still nothing, and gave it a little gas, THUMP!! jumps in reverse starts accelerating backwards. Jam my foot on the brake and it stops about a milimeter from car behind me. Heart pounding I sit there for a moment or two and pull out with no further issues. What if that had been my wife? Unsuspecting, she could have slammed into that car. I don't trust my Jeep anymore. That was about a month ago and nothing has happened since then. All fluid levels are fine. My fifth Jeep and the only one I didn't trust with anyone driving. Bad feeling.


2005 WK, 5.7L, Gold, Leather
2003 TJ 4.0L Freedom Edition, Flame Red, 5 spd., CAI, Warn, stinger, Hella/KC trail lights.

Dick Surran

"When you stop contributing you are just taking up space."
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post #2 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 11:53 AM
inhidin
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My '08 does the same thing. I've found that when very cold, or sitting for long extended periods it will do that - I firmly apply the foot brake and cycle through the transmission selector from R to D to R. If memory serves me - there was/is a TSB for the symptoms. I think it apples to only to WK overseas, but its the same symptoms. THe root cause is not the transmission, but actually the shifter/transmission select.
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post #3 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
rsurran
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That's a nasty habit. Have to clue my wife in. Luckily we live in the sticks, acres of parking so not many close situations.

2005 WK, 5.7L, Gold, Leather
2003 TJ 4.0L Freedom Edition, Flame Red, 5 spd., CAI, Warn, stinger, Hella/KC trail lights.

Dick Surran

"When you stop contributing you are just taking up space."
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post #4 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 12:13 PM
Zlartibartfast
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http://wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wh_2100211.pdf

be patient - it's S L O W to load
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post #5 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 01:27 PM
06JeepXKHEMI
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My XK does this, I just give it a few seconds before jumping on the throttle.. It is a tad annoying when in a rush but if there is nothing truely wrong with it I dont mind.. Other than it being slow to engage when sitting for periods of time or cold it shifts fine

05 LJRubi Currie 4" Springs, Savvy Fox shocks, MC trackbars, MC CA's single adj lower double uppers, 37x13.50 Cooper STT Pros on 17x9 ATX Ravine, MC Overlines front, Genright rear, Revolution 5.38s, Carolina Driveline driveshafts, MCAI
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post #6 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 02:00 PM
trax95008
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My XK does this occasionally. If it does it again, put it into neutral and give it a rev. The problem is the ATF leaking out of the torque converter down to the pan. Giving it a quick rev in N will pump the fluid back up to the TC
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post #7 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 05:21 PM
yzjwk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsurran View Post
So I was parallel parked in a line of cars at the curb. I got in to leave, started the engine and eased it in to reverse. Nothing, no engagement. I waited a second, still nothing, and gave it a little gas, THUMP!! jumps in reverse starts accelerating backwards. Jam my foot on the brake and it stops about a milimeter from car behind me. Heart pounding I sit there for a moment or two and pull out with no further issues. What if that had been my wife? Unsuspecting, she could have slammed into that car. I don't trust my Jeep anymore. That was about a month ago and nothing has happened since then. All fluid levels are fine. My fifth Jeep and the only one I didn't trust with anyone driving. Bad feeling.
there was some talk a long time ago that the transmission spin on filter with a bad drain back valve in it would occasionally cause this problem . it was especially prevalent on the 05/06's . I wouldn't consider this a huge problem , but i wouldn't consider it "normal" at all . I would double/tripple check your fluid level first though because that is usually always the first sign.
good luck

5 and counting :05 WK 5.7 HEMI
90 YJ Islander 4.2L
94 ZJ Ltd 5.2 ,00 WJ 4.0
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-14-2013, 06:08 PM
inhidin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlartibartfast View Post
http://wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wh_2100211.pdf

be patient - it's S L O W to load
Not that slow - but yes, thats the TSB that I read elsewhere. thanks for posting it!
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post #9 of 13 Old 03-15-2013, 08:17 AM
JeepCares
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FYI - Ignore if not interested:

SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER: 21-002-11
GROUP: Transmission and Transfer Case
DATE: April 13, 2011
SUBJECT:
Vehicle Exhibits Delayed Engagement To Reverse Or Drive Or Mil Illumination - P0741 Or Transmission Over Temp Light Illumination
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves replacing the Transmission Control Module (TCM).
MODELS:
2007 - 2009 (KA) Nitro (International Only)
2008 - 2009 (KK) Liberty (International Only)
2007 - 2009 (LE) Chrysler 300 (International Only)
2007 - 2009 (WH/WK) Grand Cherokee (International Only)
2007 - 2009 (XH) Commander (International Only)

NOTE: This Service Bulletin applies to vehicles built with a 2.8L diesel engine (sales code ENS) or 3.0L diesel engine (sales code EXL) and a NAG1 Transmission (sales code DGJ) or (sales code DGU).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience any of the following:
- Improper “transmission over temp” light illumination in instrument cluster.
- Mil Illumination - P0741 fault code present.
- Perceived slow engagements when shifting to drive or reverse.
- Harsh coastdown shift improvements during light to moderate braking at ZERO throttle. WH/XH/WK - Bodies
- Torque converter clutch control improvements to eliminate low speed "grumble" vibration felt during light to moderate throttle acceleration. LE bodies
The new Transmission Control Module (TCM) has been updated to correct these conditions.


SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER: 21-007-06

GROUP: Transmission
DATE: April 07, 2006
SUBJECT:
RFE Transmission Filters - Delayed Engagement And Related Transmission DTC'S
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves verifying the build date of the transmission, and if necessary, the replacement of both the cooler return and sump filters in the transmission.
MODELS:
2005 - 2006 (DR) Ram Truck
2005 - 2006 (HB) Durango
2005 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty / Cherokee
2005 - 2006 (ND) Dakota
2005 - 2006 (WK / WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 (XK) Commander

NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 45RFE or a 545RFE automatic transmission (sales code DG4 or DGQ respectively) having a
specific transmission build date code.

Inspect for the transmission build date (Julian date) (Fig. 1). The transmission build date can be determined by inspection of the 20 digit transmission identification number (DDDYxxxxxPpartnumber). The transmission identification number is stamped on the left side (driver side) of the transmission oil pan flange. The first four (4) digits of the transmission identification number are the transmission build date, in Julian date
format. An example of a transmission identification number would be :
101510492P52119684AA. The first three digits ( 101 ) of the identification number equal the day of the year, in this case 101 equals April 11. The fourth digit ( 5 ) of the identification number equals the calendar year, in this case 5 equals 2005. So 1015 equals April 11, 2005.
4. Determine if the vehicle's transmission was built on or between one of the two sets of Julian date build ranges listed below:
a. Julian date 0425 (February 11, 2005) to Julian date 0455 (February 15, 2005). 0425 to 0455.
b. Julian date 1015 (April 11, 2005) to Julian date 2345 (August 22, 2005). 1015 to 2345.
5. If the vehicle has the below condition, and if the transmission Julian build date is on or between the range of dates listed above, perform the Repair Procedure.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience an initial delayed shift engagement following an extended off (not running) period of time, generally after being parked overnight. The initial shift engagement may feel like a delay or slip when a transmission gear (reverse or drive) is first selected after engine start.
The customer may also experience a MIL illumination. Investigation may determine that the MIL is due to one or more of the following Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's):
P0868 - Line Pressure Low. This DTC will be the most frequently occurring DTC for the delayed shift condition.
P0944 - Loss Of Hydraulic Pump Prime.
P0731 - Gear Ratio Error In 1st.
P0736 - Gear Ratio Error In Reverse.
P0841 - LR Pressure Switch Rationality.
P0876 - UD Pressure Switch Rationality.
The delayed engagement and MIL condition (DTC's) may be caused by a suspect transmission cooler return filter with a part number of 04799662AB. A suspect 04799662AB cooler return filter may cause the transmission sump filter to split at its plastic-to-metal crimp. If the transmission sump filter becomes split at the crimp, then one or more of the above DTC's may also occur.


SERVICE BULLETIN NUMBER: 21-015-05
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: September 01, 2005
SUBJECT:
45RFE / 545RFE Trans - Delayed Engagement Due To Cooler Return Filter Replacement
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves a transmission delayed shift condition that may occur following the replacement of the internal cooler return filter.
MODELS:
2000 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
2000 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2003 - 2006 (DR) Ram Truck
2004 - 2006 (HB) Durango
2002 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty
1999 - 2004 (WJ / WG) Grand Cherokee
2005 - 2006 (WK / WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 (XK) Commander

NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 45RFE or a 545RFE
automatic transmission (sales code DG4 or DGQ respectively).

DISCUSSION:
The customer may experience an initial delayed shift engagement following an extended off (not running) period of time, generally after being parked overnight. The initial shift engagement may feel like a delay or slip when a transmission gear (reverse or drive) is first selected after engine start.
The customer may not have experienced the delayed shift engagement until after the transmission has been serviced, where the cooler return filter was replaced during the service and/or repair.
The condition is not detrimental to the transmission but may cause concern with the customer.
The above condition may be caused by a suspect cooler return filter a part number of 04799662AB. This “AB” suffix / level filter may allow transmission fluid to drain back out of the torque converter. The drain back condition may occur over a period time when the engine (and transmission) are not running. With less fluid in the torque converter a delay in gear engagement may occur at engine start up while the torque converter fills to its proper
fluid level.
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-15-2013, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
rsurran
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Thanks all of you for the information. I will double check the fluild level and try the neutral rev if it happens again. I will also try going through the shift pattern with my foot firmly on the brake. The day this happened I had just driven 25 miles to a meeting so it hadn't been sitting very long.

2005 WK, 5.7L, Gold, Leather
2003 TJ 4.0L Freedom Edition, Flame Red, 5 spd., CAI, Warn, stinger, Hella/KC trail lights.

Dick Surran

"When you stop contributing you are just taking up space."
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post #11 of 13 Old 03-15-2013, 12:34 PM
lauderdalechad
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This is a common symptom of a split trans filter...there is two, a spin on type and a flat panel. The factory flat panel filter will split at the seam and cause delayed engagement of the trans. Drop the pan and check it out

2000 jeep wrangler sport: 31" BFG ATS, auto - wrecked
1997 jeep grand cherokee: stock - gf's zj
2000 Silverado 5.3l Z71- sold
2006 Overland HEMI QDII
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post #12 of 13 Old 03-20-2017, 08:56 AM
digital951
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This happened to me this morning. I have only had my Jeep for 3 weeks. Glad to know this isn't a horrible issue. Thanks for all the good info!
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post #13 of 13 Old 03-20-2017, 10:47 AM
azzkicker
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Location: Beaverton
Posts: 369
In case you don't know (you probably do), unlike the engine, the transmission likely wants you warmed up and idling on flat ground before you check fluid level (check the manual). If your engine is off, many transmissions will read very high, so if you checked it with it off, or the vehicle on a slope, you might think you have more fluid than you do.

Even the neutral rev should be done with as much power on the brake as you can sustain, because if you don't know what's malfunctioned, you may not be in the gear your selector is pointing at. I'm curious if a longer idle before leaving, or a rev in park would have a similar effect to the rev in neutral. I don't know transmission internals enough to speculate, but those would be less risky.

Be sure to tell anyone who drives this vehicle (and it's good advice for any vehicle) that revving it up in gear when it isn't moving is a bad idea, especially if you don't have a lot of clear space in the direction you've selected. That goes for slipping tires, slipping transmissions, or even an engine that's sputtering or bogging. Any of those conditions can suddenly improve, launching you unexpectedly (as you noticed). I've seen older column shifters that could hang between neutral and drive, yet be pointed at drive, then suddenly pop into the correct position and be in gear.

I see it more in motorcycles than in 4X4s, but it reminds me a little of when somebody is spinning like crazy with wide open throttle, and they suddenly get traction. It can be very bad when all that potential energy suddenly gets released.

Let us know what you find. Hopefully you can fix it, rather than learn to live with it.

07 WK 5.7 QD2, 4" lift, 33X10" tires, M8000s
ARB twin air,Dual AGM group 49, sliders and skids
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