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Unread 04-17-2013, 10:51 AM   #1
Xmind
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How much is too much metal in your oil filter?

Disclaimer: I'll apologize up front if this is a noob question, but it is all new to me.

First time changing oil on the Jeep since I got it a little over a week ago. Also the first vehicle I own with just an engine oil filter cartridge, so I've never seen what contaminates the filter is catching (though I will cut some open after this experience)....

Anyway, I was very surprised to see that much metal particles in the oil filter. Is this normal for a 2007 Cherokee CRD with 85k miles? I'm hoping so, because I don't want to know I may have an engine with limited life left before I have to tear into the internals.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...12B7055330!275

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...I5sPXeE-9llvyA

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Unread 04-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #2
chrali
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Wow... I've never seen ANY metal in any oil filter and I've had many old heaps! For metal to be in the filter means its being ripped out of something else. The oil will contain minute particles as part of the normal wear and tear as the engine ages and mileage racks up. So your filter is doing its job, but if it was my car I'd be concerned, coz that aint minute to me.

I changed my 3.0 CRD filter less than 2,000 miles ago, it was filthy and black, but NO visible metal. Mine has 47k mile on it and the filter had gone 12k, before I'd changed it. Gotta say your filter doesn't look as dirty as mine did.

How many miles is on it and hows it running? Not wanting to be a doomsayer, but perhaps thats why it was sold. If you have a warranty, I'd get onto it, or reject it asap if you bought it from a trader. If your stuck with it send a samep to Blackstones so they can tell you whats in the oil including what metal it is, that may help you pin down where its coming from.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 05:47 PM   #3
TurboDiesel
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no metal on my oil filters in my diesel
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Unread 04-17-2013, 07:29 PM   #4
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Only seen metal in my fuel filter on my CRD
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Unread 04-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #5
TangoTango
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no that is not normal, you have some problem going on there.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #6
Xmind
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<sigh> I was afraid of that.

So I changed the filter and oil and took it out for a hard drive. Put over 100 miles on it and kept the engine around the 3k RPM range for around an hour straight driving the freeways nearby (with the wife at home next to the phone and car keys). Everything ran fine, no unusual noises that I could tell. I was monitoring a few vitals via the Android Torque app and my Bluetooth adapter and did get scared at about 45 to 50 minutes into the drive where the cat temps went from the 580 -700 they were at to 1200 degrees Fahrenheit! Letting off the gas didn't lower the temps, but I didn't notice any loss of power. I pulled into a parking lot to check things out and didn't notice a whole lot other than a fair bit of smoke from the EHM I just did....which is understandable considering the engine was working a bit. Started back up and ran at the normal ~600 degrees again. I assume the 1200 degree spike was the cat regen or the DPF burn out routine?

Anyway, after 100 miles I checked the filter and indeed there are some small metals particles in the filter again....though much more sparse than my earlier pictures. So I'm not sure if these are left over particles from before or if these are brand new. I guess I'll have to put a few more hundred miles on it watching the filter to see if more particles collect and then swap the filter with a clean one again.

I talked to the Chrysler dealer about the service history and nothing showed up being major, just some recalls on fog lights and relays, nothing engine related. However, they do not have any records of the previous owner (I'm the 2nd owner) ever bringing the Jeep into a dealership for service....except when it was sold/traded in January of this year.

The metal particles are aluminum as my magnet didn't pull anything off the filter. My theory is that this is the crankshaft bearings going out. I'm wondering if the previous owner never put oil down the filter hole and the bearings were being worn down with each oil change?

My hope is that the previous owner did this correctly and that it was just this last service that was done improperly.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is why the particles are both on the inside as well as the outside of the oil filter? Shouldn't they only be on one side or the other?


At worse case, anyone know the cost of a rebuild on these engines? I want an idea for when I talk to the dealership I bought the vehicle from 2 weeks ago that sold me the potential time bomb.....
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Unread 04-17-2013, 09:41 PM   #7
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Might cost you some money but if you dont want to tear the motor apart and trust the motor. Change the oil & filter every 500-1000 miles, see if the metal fades away. Maybe youre right and it could be minor if its aluminium. Just an idea.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 11:02 PM   #8
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05 Liberty CRD w/125,000m. No metal in filter.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 11:17 PM   #9
onlyone
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If you bought it two weeks ago, most states have a requirement of a 30 day or 1000 mile warranty. Return it to them.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 05:19 AM   #10
BAH101
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I noticed in you picture that you filter is sitting in the filter housing. When I take the filter cap off mine, the element comes with the cap. Does you cap look like this picture:



image-229420251.jpg
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Unread 04-18-2013, 06:23 AM   #11
Xmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyone View Post
If you bought it two weeks ago, most states have a requirement of a 30 day or 1000 mile warranty. Return it to them.
Unfortunately Michigan is not one of those states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAH101 View Post
I noticed in you picture that you filter is sitting in the filter housing. When I take the filter cap off mine, the element comes with the cap. Does you cap look like this picture:
Yeah, my cap looks like the one pictured. I can't quite remember, but I want to say the filter did come out with the cap, but I put the filter back in the housing because of all the oil the filter still had and my oil catch jug was under the car already.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 06:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmind View Post
....... 45 to 50 minutes into the drive where the cat temps went from the 580 -700 they were at to 1200 degrees Fahrenheit! Letting off the gas didn't lower the temps, but I didn't notice any loss of power. I pulled into a parking lot to check things out and didn't notice a whole lot other than a fair bit of smoke from the EHM I just did....which is understandable considering the engine was working a bit. Started back up and ran at the normal ~600 degrees again. I assume the 1200 degree spike was the cat regen or the DPF burn out routine?.....
yes you had a regen and from what you describe that is the normal process. try to avoid shutting off the engine while the temps are high if you can; I typically let mine idle for at least a couple of minutes if it's still in a regen when I get to my driveway.

I strongly urge you to send in an oil sample for analysis (blackstone labs is where I send mine). there are other non-ferrous materials that might be in there besides just aluminum (ex: calcium, boron...) and you might be deciding to take that CRD back to where you bought it.

I don't know the cost of an engine rebuild, but I'm very sure it's WAAAY more than I would want to spend
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Unread 04-18-2013, 07:15 AM   #13
Xmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlartibartfast View Post
I strongly urge you to send in an oil sample for analysis (blackstone labs is where I send mine). there are other non-ferrous materials that might be in there besides just aluminum (ex: calcium, boron...) and you might be deciding to take that CRD back to where you bought it.
I guess I'm thinking worse case that that crankshaft bearings are going. If it is some other metal, where would it be coming from? Obviously if this is an oil pump shearing than that would be a much better case, but hard to imagine metal debris from too much else besides the engine itself.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 03:19 PM   #14
chrali
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Diesel pump is almost as bad as the bearings, as modern common rail engines need to be scrupulously clean and will cost thousands when the fuel system is contaminated with metal!
Anyhow, not sure its the pump as the metals in the oil, not the fuel. TBH diesel pumps are usually cooled by fuel, not oil. Not sure about the CRD tho!


Mate, I'd get rid.
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Unread 04-18-2013, 06:29 PM   #15
Xmind
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Wow...okay, I apologize to anyone I may have wasted their time reading and responding to this thread, though I do appreciate the responses.

In talking with some coworkers about it, my story wasn't jiving because I didn't see particles on the dipstick nor on the funnel I used to drain the oil, but yet appear to be on both sides of the oil filter. Also the fact that no Chrysler or Mercedes Benz dealer seemed to ever recall this kind of problem on these engines, especially that early in the mileage......it was hard for me to believe that this was the first time this has actually happened. Apparently my garage lighting and my eyes were playing tricks on me. Those are not metal shavings after all. It is a combination between the oil and the filter fibers themselves that make it look like metal in the light. I feel quite sheepish for not taking a tweezers to those "particles" sooner.

So quite a roller coaster of emotions for me, but seems everything is okay in the world now.

Thanks again to my new Jeep community and lets write this one off as me being a Jeep newbie.
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