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Unread 02-21-2011, 08:41 AM   #1
2000blackxj
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Hard Shifting

I've noticed the transmission shifts hard sometimes on my new WK. I bought it with 64K miles on it. It was a local trade and I am willing to bet the 60K service was not done on it. After researching the forum I did find that there was a service bulletin in regards to the MDS system and harsh engagement at certain speeds. I have kept an eye on the EVIC and have noticed the hard shifting while the MDS kicks on but also when it doesn't. Sometimes the trans shifts down very roughly as well as an upshift when I feel it shouldn't... I'm just cruising along not accelerating or decelerating... I'm also thinking the dealer where I bought it did not use the correct oil weight on the engine as they were not a Jeep dealer, so who knows what they might have done with the trans...

Has anyone else experienced hard shifting both up and down when it shouldn't really shift at all? I am hoping once I have the trans service done that it will improve this condition. Should I take the WK to the dealer to have this service done or am I safe talking it to a local shop where they do a power flush? Seems like the 5.7 Hemi needs very specific services so I'm thinking the trans is the same...

My experience in the past with dealers has always been bad but I want to keep my WK running nice and don't want to take any chances with it.

Thanks!

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Unread 02-22-2011, 10:41 AM   #2
SuplexTreatment
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Take it to Jiffy Lube or somewhere that only does Oil/fluid changes and get the transmission and 4x4 system fluid changed, along with the oil. Gonna be pricey tho.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 11:36 AM   #3
TonyVideo
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I don't think I would trust Jiffy Lube to put the correct amount of transmission fluid back in since you have to know the tranny temp to do so. Actually I don't think I would trust Jiffy Lube or any other fast service oil change location.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 11:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TonyVideo View Post
I don't think I would trust Jiffy Lube to put the correct amount of transmission fluid back in since you have to know the tranny temp to do so. Actually I don't think I would trust Jiffy Lube or any other fast service oil change location.
Kinda like a fast food window attendant being relied on to have your personal health in mind when upselling your fat/sugar bomb
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Unread 02-22-2011, 05:18 PM   #5
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They've always done a great job for me. It was hella cheaper than the dealership too. I also knew some of the guys there tho so idk.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 06:22 PM   #6
90grandoneer
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What year is your WK? When I bought my 06 GCO, aside from the JEEP DEALER putting the wrong oil in the engine, it shifted like crap, especially into 3rd and 4th when cold. I would definitely do (or at least try to verify by inspection) the 60K service. Mine had 48K on it and I did everything except the diffs. and the xfer case. I just did the 60K service about a month ago, and will be completely on the scheduled maintenance cycle at 66K when I do the transmission and plugs again. Personally, I would not take it to the dealer or Jiffy Lube. I'd either do it myself, so I know what/how things have been done, or take it to a KNOWLEDGEABLE, TRUSTWORTHY mechanic that is familiar with Chrysler products, Hemi engines and 545RFE transmissions. If yours is an 05-06 there is a TSB on the transmission return filter. It had not been complied with on mine, nor had the spark plugs ever changed. Also, make sure the engine has the correct oil in it, or the MDS will not work correctly. When I serviced the trans. I added the Sonnax Line Pressure Booster and then the Superchips Tuner with the Advanced Transmission Tuning App. I feel that now it works as good as it can work, but it's still nowhere near as good as the NAG1 transmission in my Hemi LX.

One other thing, as said above, it won't be cheap any way you go. I spent over $300 on fluids, oils, anti-freeze and filters alone, and that didn't include the transmission stuff or spark plugs. Also, DO NOT "flush" the transmission. Just change the fluid and filters. Be sure to use ATF+4. Mine took 8 quarts to read full hot.
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Unread 02-23-2011, 09:04 AM   #7
2000blackxj
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Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
What year is your WK? When I bought my 06 GCO, aside from the JEEP DEALER putting the wrong oil in the engine, it shifted like crap, especially into 3rd and 4th when cold. I would definitely do (or at least try to verify by inspection) the 60K service. Mine had 48K on it and I did everything except the diffs. and the xfer case. I just did the 60K service about a month ago, and will be completely on the scheduled maintenance cycle at 66K when I do the transmission and plugs again. Personally, I would not take it to the dealer or Jiffy Lube. I'd either do it myself, so I know what/how things have been done, or take it to a KNOWLEDGEABLE, TRUSTWORTHY mechanic that is familiar with Chrysler products, Hemi engines and 545RFE transmissions. If yours is an 05-06 there is a TSB on the transmission return filter. It had not been complied with on mine, nor had the spark plugs ever changed. Also, make sure the engine has the correct oil in it, or the MDS will not work correctly. When I serviced the trans. I added the Sonnax Line Pressure Booster and then the Superchips Tuner with the Advanced Transmission Tuning App. I feel that now it works as good as it can work, but it's still nowhere near as good as the NAG1 transmission in my Hemi LX.

One other thing, as said above, it won't be cheap any way you go. I spent over $300 on fluids, oils, anti-freeze and filters alone, and that didn't include the transmission stuff or spark plugs. Also, DO NOT "flush" the transmission. Just change the fluid and filters. Be sure to use ATF+4. Mine took 8 quarts to read full hot.
My GC is an 08 Limited with the Hemi engine. I am new to this model, the Hemi engine, and all the bells and whistles it came with. I do not recall what oil the dealer put in it but I am willing to bet it wasn't 5W-20... The MDS seems to work fine but its does engage rough more often than not...

I also noticed the first time I used cruise control that my MPG averaged at 20 and now I only come as close as 15.... Not sure if it is because the plugs need to be changed or its the wrong oil etc...

My plan is to definitely do the 60K service and look at the services due at previous mileages since I am not sure what the previous owner did... I do agree on not taking it to Jiffy Lube.... Not sure about other parts of the country but around here Jiffy Lube is less than impressive... I not as concerned with the cost associated with the maintenance... My XJ has over 164K miles and still running strong and I want the same from my WK. The only way to achieve this is by taking good care of it.

I am just going to do all the maintenance myself so I can learn more about the GC and know that it was done properly. If I run into problems I will just post for help here.

Should I just buy all mopar parts and fluids? I was planning on using Mobile One synthetic oil for the engine...

Thanks to all for your help/responses!
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Unread 02-23-2011, 09:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SuplexTreatment View Post
Take it to Jiffy Lube or somewhere that only does Oil/fluid changes and get the transmission and 4x4 system fluid changed, along with the oil. Gonna be pricey tho.


Sorry but, never, ever, ever take it to Jiffy lube for anything other than an oil change. Even then, I wouldn't trust them to do a simple oil change.
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Unread 02-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #9
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It is hard to turn my vehicle over to anyone. I was nervous the few times I have had to have a dealer work on it. I am like an expecting father. You spend hard earned money on something and you don't want to see somebody screw it up.
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Unread 02-23-2011, 05:38 PM   #10
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It's very common for dealers and local shops to put the wrong oil in the Hemi, as many just use bulk oil unless other is specified. Either do it yourself (get a Fumoto drain valve) or watch them put the right stuff in.

The MDS may or may not work, depending on the oil weight. Mine with 10W-30 (put in by the dumb Jeep Dealer) worked, but very poorly and sporadically. Many Hemi WK owners (including me) use Mobil 1, but any good synthetic seems to work better than dino oils.

I would not be at all surprised if your spark plugs have never been changed. Many folks just drive them until they have a problem. Mine, at 48K when I bought it, had an erratic, hunting, almost stalling idle, and got pretty bad fuel economy. Pull a couple of the easy plugs to check first. If you put them back in, be sure to use a dab of anti-seize. New plugs DO NOT require anti-seize, as it is applied at the factory. If you take them out and put the same ones back in, all bets are off. That's why the anti-seize on used plugs.

It's not necessary to use all Mopar stuff. I used Mopar transfer case fluid and antifreeze, but all the other fluids/filters came from AutoZone, O'Reilly, or Walmart. Walmart has about the best price on Mobil 1, but I got the filter at AutoZone. I also spent about 2 months acquiring this stuff, always looking for the sales or best prices. You'll probably have to get the PCV Valve (~$25) from the dealer too. If you decide to change the MAP sensor (also ~$25) you can get it from the dealer or O'Reilly's. The replacement, at least in my case was quite different from the one that came out. You'll have to remove a tab on the manifold and maybe remove the tab on the new sensor to get it to fit.

While you're at it, you may want to consider changing the EGR Valve. Many of us (again, including me) have had it fail in the 40-60K mile range. The cost of a new one is ~$35-50. I bought mine at O'Reilly's. Symptoms of a bad EGR Valve are, low speed surging around 30-50 mph, poor performance and poor economy. Your idle quality may also be affected. If it gets bad enough, like mine did, it'll throw a DTC and MIL.

IMO, if you stay on top of preventative and scheduled maintenance, you'll end up with a pretty good vehicle. At least that has been my experience. Keep us posted on your progress, and feel free to pick our brains. Again IMO, there is a lot of good info. available from forum members.
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Unread 02-23-2011, 07:09 PM   #11
Walt
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Originally Posted by 2000blackxj View Post
I've noticed the transmission shifts hard sometimes on my new WK. I bought it with 64K miles on it. It was a local trade and I am willing to bet the 60K service was not done on it. After researching the forum I did find that there was a service bulletin in regards to the MDS system and harsh engagement at certain speeds. I have kept an eye on the EVIC and have noticed the hard shifting while the MDS kicks on but also when it doesn't. Sometimes the trans shifts down very roughly as well as an upshift when I feel it shouldn't... I'm just cruising along not accelerating or decelerating... I'm also thinking the dealer where I bought it did not use the correct oil weight on the engine as they were not a Jeep dealer, so who knows what they might have done with the trans...

Has anyone else experienced hard shifting both up and down when it shouldn't really shift at all? I am hoping once I have the trans service done that it will improve this condition. Should I take the WK to the dealer to have this service done or am I safe talking it to a local shop where they do a power flush? Seems like the 5.7 Hemi needs very specific services so I'm thinking the trans is the same...

My experience in the past with dealers has always been bad but I want to keep my WK running nice and don't want to take any chances with it.

Thanks!
Welcome aboard and congratulations on your new WK HEMI.

1. Change 2 filters and replace xmission fluid (ATF+4). No flush. See this TSB: http://www.wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk_2600109.pdf Jiffy Lube (or equivalent) is highly un-recommended.
2. Change 16 spark plugs with Champion 570 copper core only. Can also use MOPAR, but they are 2x cost.
3. Change oil to 5W-20 viscosity (7 qts) and a good lube oil filter. Mine likes full synthetic best and MDS functions less erratically on it.
4. Have dealer do HEMI MDS driveability flash (It's a recent TSB).
5. Change EGR valve. Serpentine belt is due for renewal at 60K miles on our HEMI's anyway. Do both at same time for less PITA.
6. Since you don't know the history, change the xfer case fluid (2 qts of MOPAR NV247/247 fluid only @ ~$15 per quart).
7. Since you don't know the history, change the front & rear differential fluids (you can use Mobil-1 75W-140; 4 qts total). Need to add friction modifier if you have QD-II drive (2 @ 4-oz bottles of MOPAR special juice).

Your '08 WK maintenance schedule is more forgiving than earlier WK's on intervals. However, you don't know the history from the PO. Your '08-specific maintenance schedule is in the owner's manual: http://www.wkjeeps.com/Manuals/2008_...d_Cherokee.pdf . You can download the parts manual at same place.

90grandoneer & I are on parallel tracks on these items. Recommend you follow his advice. He has 2 HEMI's: like keeping 2 wives happy at the same time.

Everyone here will help if you get stuck. Lots of threads on all of these topics; search feature will probably keep you up all night, as will a trip around http://www.wkjeeps.com/kmenu.htm.

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Unread 02-24-2011, 07:04 AM   #12
2000blackxj
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Welcome aboard and congratulations on your new WK HEMI.

1. Change 2 filters and replace xmission fluid (ATF+4). No flush. See this TSB: http://www.wkjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk_2600109.pdf Jiffy Lube (or equivalent) is highly un-recommended.
2. Change 16 spark plugs with Champion 570 copper core only. Can also use MOPAR, but they are 2x cost.
3. Change oil to 5W-20 viscosity (7 qts) and a good lube oil filter. Mine likes full synthetic best and MDS functions less erratically on it.
4. Have dealer do HEMI MDS driveability flash (It's a recent TSB).
5. Change EGR valve. Serpentine belt is due for renewal at 60K miles on our HEMI's anyway. Do both at same time for less PITA.
6. Since you don't know the history, change the xfer case fluid (2 qts of MOPAR NV247/247 fluid only @ ~$15 per quart).
7. Since you don't know the history, change the front & rear differential fluids (you can use Mobil-1 75W-140; 4 qts total). Need to add friction modifier if you have QD-II drive (2 @ 4-oz bottles of MOPAR special juice).

Your '08 WK maintenance schedule is more forgiving than earlier WK's on intervals. However, you don't know the history from the PO. Your '08-specific maintenance schedule is in the owner's manual: http://www.wkjeeps.com/Manuals/2008_WK_Jeep_Grand_Cherokee.pdf . You can download the parts manual at same place.

90grandoneer & I are on parallel tracks on these items. Recommend you follow his advice. He has 2 HEMI's: like keeping 2 wives happy at the same time.

Everyone here will help if you get stuck. Lots of threads on all of these topics; search feature will probably keep you up all night, as will a trip around http://www.wkjeeps.com/kmenu.htm.

My worth. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
90grandoneer & Walt - Thank you both for so much good info!

I have definitely decided to do all the work myself on my new Jeep. I did all the suspension and maintenance work on my 00 XJ.... The 08 WK scares me a little but with the support of this forum I am confident I can get anything done!!

Walt - quick question... You mentioned to change two filters... What filters are you referring to? I am thinking "Filter 1" is the oil filter... is "Filter 2" the fuel filter?

Here is my plan of action:

Waiting for it to get warmer here in MD - hopefully soon...

*changing the oil and oil filter with Mobil One Synthetic 5W-20 and Mobile One filter

*replacing the air filter - thinking K&N filter

*installing the cabin air filter - hopefully not a PITA since the wiper has to be removed...

*spark plugs - Champion 570 Copper Core only (Thanks Walt!!)

*ignition cables - does the Hemi even have them??

*pcv valve/EGR and thinking MAP sensor....(thought I read about this one somewhere...)

*transfer case/front and rear diff's fluids

*transmission fluid - do I need to replace the filter?

*serpetine belt (thanks again to Walt)

*thinking about using BG44K fuel injector cleaner but not sure since its seems like the HEMI is a delicate wonder of engineering

Hoping to get all of this done on a nice WARM weekend

Thanks to all again for your help!

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask about the transfer case... My WK does not have a quadra-drive emblem below the shifter like all other WK's I've seen had so I am not sure what transfer case I have... It also does not have the trail rated emblem or any skid plates =(...
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Unread 02-25-2011, 06:06 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 2000blackxj View Post
.....Walt - quick question... You mentioned to change two filters... What filters are you referring to? I am thinking "Filter 1" is the oil filter... is "Filter 2" the fuel filter?.....*replacing the filter - thinking K&N air filter......*installing the cabin air filter - hopefully not a PITA since the wiper has to be removed...*ignition cables - does the Hemi even have them?? ...MAP sensor......*transfer case/front and rear diff's fluids.... *transmission fluid - do I need to replace the filter?....... My WK does not have a quadra-drive emblem below the shifter like all other WK's I've seen had so I am not sure what transfer case I have... It also does not have the trail rated emblem or any skid plates =(...
Start by going to the dealer's parts counter with your VIN and ask for a printout of your build sheet. Lists everything that your Jeep left the factory with. Verify 545RFE xmission and NV245 xfer case. Probably corporate axles also. Build sheet is good for future reference.

545RFE xmission has 2 filters inside: regular pan filter and a cartridge-type (think it's the xmission cooler return). Change both at same time. About 7-8 qts of ATF+4 transmission fluid.

Most later WK HEMI's have either QD-II or QT-II for 4WD. If so, xfer case is likely NV245. Look underneath to verify. See my original post, item #6. If it is, use 2-qts MOPAR NV245/NV247 xfer case fluid only).

MAP sensor on back of the intake manifold. PITA to get to. 1/4 turn removal; about $25.

Let 90grandoneer & I know when you are ready to add the Billet Technolgy oil catch can and clean your throttle body. Need some specifics first to keep you out of DTC trouble.

You have no spark plug wires; coil-on-plug design. One coil for every 2 spark plugs.

Here's one nobody will tell you: The '08 WK's have a little gap between the inner/outer fender in that area where the hood lands on the side, jusr forward of the hinge. I used that area as a tool tray since I was a teenager. On the WK's, it is just big enough for a 1/4" drive socket or extension to fall down into the inner fender area. What a pain to retrieve. Now I need to buy a fender pad to cover that gap while I work on the engine. Wonder what automotive genius thought of that innovative assembly improvement?
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Unread 04-21-2011, 09:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SuplexTreatment View Post
Take it to Jiffy Lube or somewhere that only does Oil/fluid changes and get the transmission and 4x4 system fluid changed, along with the oil. Gonna be pricey tho.
I wouldn't trust Jiffy Lube or any other quick service place to change the oil in my lawn mower let alone my vehicles. You get what you pay for at places like those.
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Unread 04-21-2011, 09:32 AM   #15
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I have a rough upshift/downshift between 3+4 gears. Only happens sometimes, I can kind of judge when to let up off the accelerator and when to get on it to avoid the roughness. Mine started after the dealership did a "final drive update". I've heard that a simply reflash could solve the problem? But I don't want to reflash anything with the electrical history of my 05 Wk.
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