Finding hemi shorty wires - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
05GCL57HEMI
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Finding hemi shorty wires

I have seen 20 different threads on the USE of shorty wires on the 2005 GC Hemi, ie "has anyone used them", but I have not been able to identify them for purchase.

I just ordered a set of MSD blaster ignition coils, DiabloSport Intune, K&N cold air intake, and now I would like to find these "shorty" wires everyone has talked about but I haven't been able to find.

For clarification I am looking to eliminate the secondary spark plug from igniting on the exhaust stroke, and attaching each one to the same coil on the same cylinder.

Thank you for anyone who takes the time to help! I'm really getting frustrated looking for these wires.

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post #2 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 11:12 AM
91 Jeep Project
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Taylor makes them.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Taylor/895/826...oductId=878545

Black = 82041
Red = 82241
Blue = 82641
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
05GCL57HEMI
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Got em, thank you!

I googled Taylor Shorty wire set for hours last night with no success. Go figure. Can't wait to install these upgrades and get the new DS Intune going!
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post #4 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05GCL57HEMI View Post

I just ordered a set of MSD blaster ignition coils...
Do you have a link and/or part number for the ones you ordered? Thanks.
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post #5 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 06:32 PM
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post #6 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 06:35 PM
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Thanks. Please report back when everything is installed to let us know what you think.
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-08-2015, 11:25 PM
centralmuscle
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Looks like those MSD coils fire both plugs....so you don't need the Taylor shorties....which are for firing the other same cylinder plug from the factory "single" plug coil.
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post #8 of 25 Old 12-09-2015, 09:39 AM
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Those coils are for '06 and later. The mounting holes for the bolts that hold the coils to the valve covers are different than earlier valve covers. Because the coil now spans both plugs instead of just one. So you would have to change valve covers to be able to mount them correctly.
I also think, although I'm not positive on this, the ignition connection plug is different and would have to be changed too.
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post #9 of 25 Old 12-09-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n7vrz View Post
Those coils are for '06 and later. The mounting holes for the bolts that hold the coils to the valve covers are different than earlier valve covers. Because the coil now spans both plugs instead of just one. So you would have to change valve covers to be able to mount them correctly.
I also think, although I'm not positive on this, the ignition connection plug is different and would have to be changed too.
N7vrz is absolutely correct in all regards. I switched everything over to the late model system on my 05 Hemi LX. You will need the 06> Valve Covers and the new plugs (3 pin) in addition to the coils. Be aware that the wiring pinouts are also different. You will NOT need the Taylor Shorty Wires with this setup. I used SOS coils on mine....just like I have on my Hemi WK. Now both systems are identical, which was my goal. The pix below are the before and after setups.
Attached Images
     

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, K&N Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS Tuner, Cust tubular hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's.
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post #10 of 25 Old 12-09-2015, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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The dual plug coils are for the 2006 and up as was already stated above. My MSD coils are single coil over plug, with a wire lead on the side that attaches the secondary wire.

The 2005 has long wires that attach to each coil, and run across the top of the intake manifold to fire a secondary spark plug on the exhaust stroke of that cylinder while the combustion is initiated by the spark plug under the coil of the next cylinder. I'm eliminating all of these damn eco friendly systems, I can't stand seeing the EGR pipe going into my intake manifold, i hate MDS(I get 7-9MPG regularly even with a light touch anyway), and I think the secondary spark system is ridiculous.

I will let everyone know how this goes, I have a little work to do before using the DS Intune i2, i'll install the coils\wires\cold air intake first, and maybe a catch can.

Does anybody know how the PCV system works aside from the main accumulator and CCV line? I'm looking it over, and there is another vacuum hose running from the side of the oil fill unit, that comes out the side, and runs around the front of the engine back into the stock air box. Do I have to delete that to use a cold air intake? Or is there a bung on the K&N intake for that hose to attach?
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post #11 of 25 Old 12-10-2015, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05GCL57HEMI View Post
I'm looking it over, and there is another vacuum hose running from the side of the oil fill unit, that comes out the side, and runs around the front of the engine back into the stock air box. Do I have to delete that to use a cold air intake? Or is there a bung on the K&N intake for that hose to attach?
K&N has a port for that.

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post #12 of 25 Old 12-11-2015, 01:36 PM
90grandoneer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05GCL57HEMI View Post
The dual plug coils are for the 2006 and up as was already stated above. My MSD coils are single coil over plug, with a wire lead on the side that attaches the secondary wire.

The 2005 has long wires that attach to each coil, and run across the top of the intake manifold to fire a secondary spark plug on the exhaust stroke of that cylinder while the combustion is initiated by the spark plug under the coil of the next cylinder. I'm eliminating all of these damn eco friendly systems, I can't stand seeing the EGR pipe going into my intake manifold, i hate MDS(I get 7-9MPG regularly even with a light touch anyway), and I think the secondary spark system is ridiculous.

I will let everyone know how this goes, I have a little work to do before using the DS Intune i2, i'll install the coils\wires\cold air intake first, and maybe a catch can.

Does anybody know how the PCV system works aside from the main accumulator and CCV line? I'm looking it over, and there is another vacuum hose running from the side of the oil fill unit, that comes out the side, and runs around the front of the engine back into the stock air box. Do I have to delete that to use a cold air intake? Or is there a bung on the K&N intake for that hose to attach?
I think what threw us is the picture/part number you posted. The wires over the engine to a cylinder on the other side (exhaust firing) is called the "Wasted Spark" system. It was a failure for Chrysler (and other mfger's) and was only used in 2005 on the Hemi's. It promoted premature spark plug wear (sometimes less than 20K) and didn't work as advertised.

To answer your question about the PCV system.....it works very poorly. That is why many of us Hemi owners run catch cans to keep all the oil contamination from getting into the intake manifold and the combustion tract. If the stock system is not working properly, the contaminants can also foul the O2 Sensors, killing your fuel economy. If you don't already have a catch can, I would highly recommend you get one. I have dual PCV Valves and a catch can on mine, and the PCV System is still inferior to most other vehicles. On this note also, if you haven't checked the back side of the throttle body butterfly and the intake plenum, you should do it. Without a catch can you'll notice caked on crap on the back of the TB and perhaps even oil puddling in the plenum. If this is the case, you may need to also replace the MAP Sensor, especially if you're getting poor fuel economy.

With regard to removing the EGR System, I would not recommend it plus, if you're in an emission inspection area, it'll fail, as you'll be getting DTC's. In case you don't know what the EGR System does, it reduces the combustion temperatures, thus reducing NOX emissions....which is a good thing. Here's a little youtube video on it:

Sounds to me your MDS is not working properly either. When the engine is in proper tune and all the engine management sensors are doing their job properly, your MDS is good for about a 2-3 mpg improvement on the highway and a lesser amount around town. If all is good you should be getting ~12-14 mpg in town, ~14-16 mpg mixed, and ~17-18 mpg on the highway if you're completely stock. A tuner (either a Diablosport or a Superchips) will improve these numbers slightly. With my setup (see signature) I get 12-14 mpg in town, 16-19 mpg mixed, and normally 22-23 mpg highway (rarely [only 2-3 times] under 20 mpg).....with the MDS active more than 90% of the time. Personally, I would never get rid of the MDS, even if/when I do a rebuild.

With your poor economy, I'd be looking closely at all the primary engine management sensors, preferably monitoring them in real time, if possible. A bad MAP Sensor, bad O2 Sensors or exhaust leaks will easily kill your fuel economy. How many miles on your rig?

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, K&N Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS Tuner, Cust tubular hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's.
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post #13 of 25 Old 12-12-2015, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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I do not know who was thrown, but I didn't post pictures or part numbers, that was another poster, and he gave me the right info.

As far as all the things you suggested checking, I installed a new fuel pump\housing, throttle body, intake manifold, PCV, MAP sensor, IAT sensor, EGR, vacuum hoses, coolant temp sensor, thermostat, water pump, power steering pump, belt, idler, battery, starter, and a whole bunch of other parts in the past 8 months. I pulled the injectors and cleaned them and checked them, cleaned the intake ports, cleared the manifold mating surface of imperfections before I put everything back, and yesterday installed new MSD Blaster coils and the Taylor wires with new OEM plugs.

The Jeep was running great for awhile, and then in the past few weeks it just has been going downhill and I cannot figure out why. It does has lifter noise, in the form of the Hemi tick, which goes away while you drive, coming back sometimes if you leave it to idle for a few minutes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I think what threw us is the picture/part number you posted. The wires over the engine to a cylinder on the other side (exhaust firing) is called the "Wasted Spark" system. It was a failure for Chrysler (and other mfger's) and was only used in 2005 on the Hemi's. It promoted premature spark plug wear (sometimes less than 20K) and didn't work as advertised.

To answer your question about the PCV system.....it works very poorly. That is why many of us Hemi owners run catch cans to keep all the oil contamination from getting into the intake manifold and the combustion tract. If the stock system is not working properly, the contaminants can also foul the O2 Sensors, killing your fuel economy. If you don't already have a catch can, I would highly recommend you get one. I have dual PCV Valves and a catch can on mine, and the PCV System is still inferior to most other vehicles. On this note also, if you haven't checked the back side of the throttle body butterfly and the intake plenum, you should do it. Without a catch can you'll notice caked on crap on the back of the TB and perhaps even oil puddling in the plenum. If this is the case, you may need to also replace the MAP Sensor, especially if you're getting poor fuel economy.

With regard to removing the EGR System, I would not recommend it plus, if you're in an emission inspection area, it'll fail, as you'll be getting DTC's. In case you don't know what the EGR System does, it reduces the combustion temperatures....which is a good thing. Here's a little youtube video on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ifz8YdN2kM

Sounds to me your MDS is not working properly either. When the engine is in proper tune and all the engine management sensors are doing their job properly, your MDS is good for about a 2-3 mpg improvement on the highway and a lesser amount around town. If all is good you should be getting ~12-14 mpg in town, ~14-16 mpg mixed, and ~17-18 mpg on the highway if you're completely stock. A tuner (either a Diablosport or a Superchips) will improve these numbers slightly. With my setup (see signature) I get 12-14 mpg in town, 16-19 mpg mixed, and normally 22-23 mpg highway (rarely [only 2-3 times] under 20 mpg).....with the MDS active more than 90% of the time. Personally, I would never get rid of the MDS, even if/when I do a rebuild.

With your poor economy, I'd be looking closely at all the primary engine management sensors, preferably monitoring them in real time, if possible. A bad MAP Sensor, bad O2 Sensors or exhaust leaks will easily kill your fuel economy. How many miles on your rig?
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post #14 of 25 Old 12-12-2015, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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So now that the coils and wires are installed, my vehicle runs WORSE.
When I first started it back up, it was quiet and the test drive went fine.

No CEL, no shuddering\bucking\lurching.
Then I went back inside, took a shower and changed, and went to go back out, boom, started it up and it was shuddering so violently that
the entire engine was moving back and forth and the car was rocking back and forth.

I obviously jumped out and rechecked everything, but nothing was amiss. Started it back up, and it ran "decently", and I took it a mile or so away, then at a stop light it started bucking again.
It seems like as it got colder out it got worse. Today I started it up in the daytime just to grab something quick to eat, and it shuddered a little, but wasn't anywhere near as bad and nonexistent in park or neutral. Checked it again later today when it was colder, and it was worse. What the heck is going on with this Jeep? I am pretty experienced in automotive and I have come across very few issues that I can't figure out. This just makes no sense because everything on top of the motor is new, there are no codes, but the car is running like it's about to explode. Usually you can narrow it down.

Lastly, which I also have never seen, my MPG indicator was counting down like a clock, very steadily until it reached 1.6 MPG. I had 30 miles left worth of gas, and 5 minutes later it alerted me "low fuel". I usually get gas before this time but I just brought it home for now to pull of the intake plenum and check the throttle body. Not much to check as the IAC and TPS are not serviceable, TPS being it's drive by wire, and the IAC in fixed into the throttle body.
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post #15 of 25 Old 12-13-2015, 01:26 PM
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I don't think you ever told us how many miles are on your ride? Also, how long have you had this vehicle? Did you change all the components you listed because you were chasing this problem or did you do it just for giggles, or??? For me, I got tired of relying on crappy, low end code scanners and, like a few others, sprung for a good computerized diagnostic scanner that will work on any vehicle I'll ever own that runs the OBDII, CAN Bus system.....which is almost everything today. It takes a lot of the guess work out of troubleshooting, does way more things than I'll ever need/use, and for sure cuts down on the random parts replacing in hopes of stumbling onto the problem.

All that being said, have you changed the cam/crank sensors? When traveling, I carry one of each with both my Hemi vehicles (cost ~$25 each) along with my diagnostic scanner, as either/both of these sensors can strand you if they fail. Granted they don't normally fail outright all at once, but they can cause you a lot of grief when they start acting up.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, K&N Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS Tuner, Cust tubular hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's.
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