Exhaust header to Ypipe flange gasket? - JeepForum.com

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post #1 of 18 Old 03-04-2017, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
zenoise
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So I'm going through my exhaust on my 05 grand Cherokee 5.7 trying to find an annoying leak. It sounds like it's coming from the flange where the driver side manifold meets the y-pipe flange.
I know thats near the main place these have the infamous manifokd gasket leak.

But, the leak started days after we cut out the stock CATs and welded in new ones. One of the CATs was completely empty giving me a CEL.

Shortly after I noticed a prominent exhaust leak on my driver side.
We got under it today and found no leaks at the welds on the CATs and traced the leak to the flange at the header to pipe.. HOPEFULLY.

My question... is there a donut gasket in that flange? Or is it a metal to metal compression flange? It's a 2 bolt flange. My guess is when we cut the old CATs out it shook the flange loose or HOPEFULLY didn't open up the manifold gasket.

I called the parts store and told me it's a triangle flange with 3 holes. Which is wrong. Because both banks have 2 bolt flanges.
I've read the 5.2s in the older GCs dont use donut gaskets. They just press together.

There isn't anything I've seen anywhere with a definite answer or part.
Any help?

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post #2 of 18 Old 03-05-2017, 09:17 AM
PolkaPower
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I'm going to say no gasket. There wasn't a gasket at the muffler flange when I put on my mbrp exhaust. Just two bolt compression.
Check the header bolts. Very common for those to snap the heads off and leak. I have a leak on my rear passenger header bolt. Not bad enough to cause any mpg issues yet but you can hear it at start up.
I'm saving for AR headers.
I've also had a couple of ZJ's and like you said, no gaskets there either.
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post #3 of 18 Old 03-05-2017, 03:31 PM
90grandoneer
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You're right, no gasket. If it's leaking and you can't fix it by tightening, you'll have to have it replaced with either the factory type of convert it to the 3 bolt gasketed flange. My header collectors are both 3 bolt flanges and I eliminated the one behind the cats. If it ever has to come off for any reason, it comes off with a sawzall. Only cost $20 to get it welded back together at the muffler shop. I've already had to sawzall the "Y" pipe before both cats. to get the custom headers out so I could get some cracks fixed. Also, no more header flange leaks for me.....Percy's "Seal for Good" flange gaskets, hardened flange bolts and Nord-Lock Wedge washers which keep them from ever coming loose unless I loosen them.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, K&N Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS Tuner, Cust tubular hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's.
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post #4 of 18 Old 03-05-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
You're right, no gasket. If it's leaking and you can't fix it by tightening, you'll have to have it replaced with either the factory type of convert it to the 3 bolt gasketed flange. My header collectors are both 3 bolt flanges and I eliminated the one behind the cats. If it ever has to come off for any reason, it comes off with a sawzall. Only cost $20 to get it welded back together at the muffler shop. I've already had to sawzall the "Y" pipe before both cats. to get the custom headers out so I could get some cracks fixed. Also, no more header flange leaks for me.....Percy's "Seal for Good" flange gaskets, hardened flange bolts and Nord-Lock Wedge washers which keep them from ever coming loose unless I loosen them.
Good rid bits of information there. I'm going to look those products up when I get around to the headers. Thanks again.
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post #5 of 18 Old 03-05-2017, 05:42 PM
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Here's the info. on both the gaskets and the washers. Be sure to watch the cool "Junker Vibration Test" video on the Nord-Lock washers. When I put them on the Hemi, I used anti-seize compound also, since these washers aren't affected by it. Just be sure to use bolts that aren't any harder than the washers. The washers are a little more expensive than standard washers, but easily well worth the additional cost.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...view/make/jeep Use 66040 for headers and 66075 for the stock manifolds.

http://www.nord-lock.com/bolted/watc...st-video-here/

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post #6 of 18 Old 03-05-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
Here's the info. on both the gaskets and the washers. Be sure to watch the cool "Junker Vibration Test" video on the Nord-Lock washers. When I put them on the Hemi, I used anti-seize compound also, since these washers aren't affected by it. Just be sure to use bolts that aren't any harder than the washers. The washers are a little more expensive than standard washers, but easily well worth the additional cost.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...view/make/jeep Use 66040 for headers and 66075 for the stock manifolds.

http://www.nord-lock.com/bolted/watc...st-video-here/
Awesome thanks a lot for the links!
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-06-2017, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Great info guys.
I figured it was compression metal to metal flange because there doesn't look to be room for a donut gasket.
Of course, this is just one more instance where the parts store just spits out whatever. Rock auto even gives the 3 bolt flange gasket as the replacement which is obviously incorrect.

This is why forums can be so helpful and can save you money if used properly.

Definitely will be referencing this post. Because I dropped the driver side wheel well splash guard and did a better leak check. It must be coming from the manifold.... because it's not the flange.
So that's great lol. (Sarcasm)
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post #8 of 18 Old 03-06-2017, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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One more question though.
I've seen a video of a 4.7 manifold gasket repair. I'm moderate to upper in mechanical knowledge. I've got all the air tools and what not. Been a commercial Refrigeration tech for 16 years, and building cars for longer.
That being said. Are the 5.7s much more difficult? The 4.7s don't seem to be bad relatively speaking.
But the 5.7 seems to be much more tight than the 4,7.
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post #9 of 18 Old 03-07-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenoise View Post
So I'm going through my exhaust on my 05 grand Cherokee 5.7 trying to find an annoying leak. It sounds like it's coming from the flange where the driver side manifold meets the y-pipe flange.
I know thats near the main place these have the infamous manifokd gasket leak.

But, the leak started days after we cut out the stock CATs and welded in new ones. One of the CATs was completely empty giving me a CEL.

Shortly after I noticed a prominent exhaust leak on my driver side.
We got under it today and found no leaks at the welds on the CATs and traced the leak to the flange at the header to pipe.. HOPEFULLY.

My question... is there a donut gasket in that flange? Or is it a metal to metal compression flange? It's a 2 bolt flange. My guess is when we cut the old CATs out it shook the flange loose or HOPEFULLY didn't open up the manifold gasket.

I called the parts store and told me it's a triangle flange with 3 holes. Which is wrong. Because both banks have 2 bolt flanges.
I've read the 5.2s in the older GCs dont use donut gaskets. They just press together.

There isn't anything I've seen anywhere with a definite answer or part.
Any help?
My '08 had same problem with exhaust leaks and P0133 DTC's. There are no gaskets on mine (either RHS or LHS).
It drove the dealer and Jeep technical people nuts for months. They changed both exhaust manifolds, all studs and nuts, the y-pipe with cats, etc. No joy.
We finally ended up torquing the 2 bolts on each flange with a 3/8" breaker bar on a l-o-n-g extension socket (5/8" or 16 mm)....forget the published torque spec. Do this when the exhaust is hot (operating temperature) and the joint will contract on cooldown.
I have to re-tighten the driver's side about every 15K miles (every 3rd oil change). [I get a P0133 DTC at cold engine start when it needs to be done.]

In the event you still want to do something, I found a listing for Percy's High Performance Carbon Gasket Material, No. 68006. Comes in 10" x 10" sheet. Was $10.95 at summitracing.com. That was to be my next step if the torquing failed.

Hope this helps. CAUTION: This advice may be worth what you paid to get it.

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post #10 of 18 Old 03-08-2017, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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I have the question that is subjective I suppose....

Are the 5.7s much worse to remove the manifolds on than the 4.7s?
I'm sure I can get the old ones out and it's definitely the rear bolts that snapped but I'm just curious because I may tackle the job myself.
Because the leak is definitely the manifold gaskets... and possibly warped manifolds...
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post #11 of 18 Old 03-08-2017, 02:57 PM
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I am sure they're both about the same. i can say that the 5.7's are no picnic to get in and out but, if you're patient and take your time, it is very doable. Over the over 7 years that I've had my Hemi with custom headers, I've changed flange gaskets twice and pulled them to fix cracks once. On mine, the best tool is a slightly offset, thin wall open end/box combination wrench, mostly using the box end. I don't know if this would be true for folks with the stock manifolds though. I've found that it also makes it a little easier if you remove the inner fender well liners and move (out of the way) the alternator, power steering pump, the battery (and box) and the two electronic modules on the driver's side fender well. Bungee cords are your friend to restrain some of this stuff so you won't have to disconnect it. I am sure that some of the folks that have done this with the stock manifolds can help a little more.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, K&N Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS Tuner, Cust tubular hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's.
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post #12 of 18 Old 03-09-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I am sure they're both about the same. i can say that the 5.7's are no picnic to get in and out but, if you're patient and take your time, it is very doable. Over the over 7 years that I've had my Hemi with custom headers, I've changed flange gaskets twice and pulled them to fix cracks once. On mine, the best tool is a slightly offset, thin wall open end/box combination wrench, mostly using the box end. I don't know if this would be true for folks with the stock manifolds though. I've found that it also makes it a little easier if you remove the inner fender well liners and move (out of the way) the alternator, power steering pump, the battery (and box) and the two electronic modules on the driver's side fender well. Bungee cords are your friend to restrain some of this stuff so you won't have to disconnect it. I am sure that some of the folks that have done this with the stock manifolds can help a little more.
When the dealer did mine (under warranty), they also took out the driver's side steering shaft (per service manual) for better access. If you do choose to disconnect it, restrain the steering wheel, as the clock spring broke ( ) and they had to replace that also (under warranty of course). Recommend you mark all disconnected joints for proper alignment upon re-assembly. As 90grandoneer stated, it is a PITA job. Since I'm using it for a daily driver, I didn't have the luxury of excessive time out-of-service (yes, 90grandoneer, I'm still teaching... thermodynamics, heat transfer, and thermal fluids lab this semester).

My Jeep isn't getting older; it's getting newer part-by-part.

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post #13 of 18 Old 03-10-2017, 02:28 PM
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You really are packing the miles on yours, Walt. Mine just turned 105K. I remember when ours were about at the same mileage. Keep on Jeepin.

Good to see you're still "proff'ing" it. When are you going to retire....and devote more time to the Heep, LOL?

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post #14 of 18 Old 03-17-2017, 02:49 PM
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Taking summer off. Then, scheduled to teach Thermodynamics I, Thermodynamics II, and Thermal Fluids Lab in Fall 2017 semester at Central Michigan University. If Saginaw Valley State University needs help over the Summer, I can teach a Physics Lab.
Next big maintenance things on the agenda are the serpentine belt, front/rear differential gear oil change, transfer case lube oil change, radio repair (entire RHS speaker system is inoperative), and the 10-yr inspection for lifetime limited powertrain warranty. Need to wait for some warmer weather here in mid-Michigan first though.

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post #15 of 18 Old 03-18-2017, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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I apologize for jumping in the middle of the discussion and taking a right turn, so to speak. But I just got mine back from a trusted shop. I bit the green bullet and just payed the shop to do my mani gaskets and an alignment since I just threaded on some new tie rods. I just didn't have the time to do the gaskets. I've replaced over 20 relatively descent labored parts on this already myself and can't just couldn't justify another two day job at this moment.
$650 to do the gaskets including milling the manifolds flat.
Here's the kicker. Only the passenger side gasket showed blow by. But I had them do both since the driver side was where the noise was coming from. Like many others report... The sound usually is usually only heard from the drivers side. Passenger side it sounded fine. When I went to pick it up the sound was STILL THERE. Just as bad. I immediately drove back and went for a ride with mechanic that did the job. And I made him give me the old gaskets to make sure he actually did it. After talking to him I am positive he did it, and he also said he dropped the whole mid pipe and touched up some welds on the new CATs we just welded in prior. Because we welded them while on the Jeep and the top welds were hard to get at.
After driving it he did hear it but couldn't understand what was leaking. He momentarily blocked off the exhaust while I listened for hissing. And there was none.

Believe me when I say it is NOT the Hemi tick I'm hearing. It never sounded like this when I first bought it. It only started this a couple weeks after we did the CATs. It's that harmonic "puffing" exhaust sound that you hear so many people report when they're driving by a wall of buildings or bridge wall,

My question is... WTH?? Lol.
Could it be the EGR?
Could it be the mani to mid pipe flange needs re-torquing?
It doesn't seem to leak there though.

I've heard others say after they replaced their EGR their engine got a lot quieter.


Any ideas???
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