Diesel WK: STARTECH Engine Tuning Kit for CRD - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > WK Grand Cherokee & XK Commander Forum > Diesel WK: STARTECH Engine Tuning Kit for CRD

WJ Tube Doors Now Available!*VOTE NOW Help Metalcloak Giveaway an XJ Suspension*TJ 5.25" Speaker Adapters - NalinMFG

Reply
Unread 07-23-2007, 01:57 PM   #16
bobholthaus
Member
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 373
I'm with you on these questions. On my old A4, the chip just increased the turbo boost (at least that's what I was told). Thanks for posting these questions.

__________________
'07 GC CRD Limited - OEM 08 HID's - OEM 08 Chrome 18" Wheels - 265/60-18 Bridgestone Revo 2s - Valentine 1 - Weathertech Cargo Liner & Mats - UConnect - PIAA 1000 Driving Lights - Garmin 750 - Cargo Area LEDs - Mopar Remote Start - HID fogs
bobholthaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2007, 02:46 PM   #17
merlinTec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,944
True but others wouldn’t be backed by jeep, this is. I have no idea how it does what it says it does or if it does it over all RPM’s. My company doesn’t measure this, I am just a mechanic at a jeep dealership that fits it. This info however is posted on the UK infonet (Chrysler jeep network) so I guess jeep have measured this. This is not just a chip to up the turbo boost that I am sure of. When fitting these kits we do have to let warranty know that we have fitted this unit. We have forum to fill out, 1 we keep, 1 to the customer and 1 to jeep. But jeep cover this unit under warranty and any damage it may do if it went wrong.
merlinTec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2007, 03:08 PM   #18
LEDFoot
Registered User
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DFW area, Texas
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
It would be great if you could also post exactly what this gizmo does to gain such increases in HP, torque and fuel economy. Does it give these increases for all RPM's? How does your company measure these increases?

Sorry to sound so skeptical, but there are some bogus claims being made by other manufactures of these kinds of "upgrades". For gas engines, some chips simply advance the timing. I can do that in 5 minutes without a chip. Some products do nothing. Ive heard of some chips that really do increase HP and torque say on some bigger diesels, but there are sacrifices (usually fuel economy and longevity).

Im not saying that your product is bad. Its just that we need to be very careful about what products we put on such an engine.

Turbocharged gasoline engines can gain a significant amount of HP and TQ with a chip. On most modern turbo engines the ECU is responsible for regulating the amount of boost generated at any given time. A simple reprogramming in the ECU can increase boost levels.

That said, as far as I know, most diesel chips are simply over-fuelers and do not touch the amount of boost and timing.
LEDFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2007, 03:33 PM   #19
Tuco
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 486
Quote:
My company doesnít measure this, I am just a mechanic at a jeep dealership that fits it
Thanks for clearling this up for us. I thought you worked for Startech.

Quote:
with a diesel, the more you drive at partial throttle, the better the fuel economy you'll see. If you have more power available, it means the with day to day driving you won't be pushing the engine quite as hard thus you should see some improvement in mpg.
Maybe Im missing something, but I think the idea of using less throttle and getting better mpg is not diesel specific! The less throttle, the less fuel that is put into the engine. I also think that those that want a lot more power are not going to drive around with a light foot, so the fuel consumption will likely be higher with a modification that dumps more fuel. However, if the modification is to boost turbo and therefore try to cram more air into the combustion chamber, maybe a hp increase could be realized without using more fuel. But consider that the MB engineers chose the boost pressures with a lot of analysis. They didnt just say "15 psi sounds about right, so lets just go with that".

Im not a mechanic, but my advice would be to keep this CRD stock and enjoy it as it was designed. Get a vehicle with a bigger engine if you want more HP and a ligher vehicle if you want better mpg.
__________________
07 WK CRD Limited
Tuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2007, 04:00 PM   #20
bobholthaus
Member
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 373
Just got this email from my buddy at the local dealership:

My parts guy is checking on the STARTECH SD6. He has emailed the importer for it and is checking on availability and whether or not is will change the emissions rating for US Market on your vehicle. If it does, you will not be able to pass the emissions testing for renewal of vehicle registration. I will let you know what I come up with!
__________________
'07 GC CRD Limited - OEM 08 HID's - OEM 08 Chrome 18" Wheels - 265/60-18 Bridgestone Revo 2s - Valentine 1 - Weathertech Cargo Liner & Mats - UConnect - PIAA 1000 Driving Lights - Garmin 750 - Cargo Area LEDs - Mopar Remote Start - HID fogs
bobholthaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2007, 04:15 PM   #21
merlinTec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,944
As it’s only a plug in unit you could always just unplug it when it gets tested and plug it back in after, if you have to that is.
merlinTec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2007, 12:07 AM   #22
jeep_on
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinTec
As itís only a plug in unit you could always just unplug it when it gets tested and plug it back in after, if you have to that is.
My thoughts exactly. Iíd like to know more about this product my self. Even if it changes the emissions, I could frankly care less.
__________________
2006 Dodge RAM Laramie w/ 5.9L I6
2010 Volkswagen Jetta w/ TDI 2.0L I4

Waiting on a 2013 RHD JK Unlimited


Quote:
Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
Wait, you can't cross creeks up there? What the Hell is up with these Canadians?
jeep_on is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2007, 10:28 AM   #23
LEDFoot
Registered User
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DFW area, Texas
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
Maybe Im missing something, but I think the idea of using less throttle and getting better mpg is not diesel specific! The less throttle, the less fuel that is put into the engine. I also think that those that want a lot more power are not going to drive around with a light foot, so the fuel consumption will likely be higher with a modification that dumps more fuel.
Well... I guess you're _sorta_ missing something, I could have explained my point better.

The _difference_ in fuel economy of a diesel engine over a gasoline engine is almost all at partial throttle.
Put the pedal to the metal on your diesel plant and you will have a fuel consumption nearly as high as a gasoline engine.
Bottom line is, to reap the fuel economy benefits of a diesel you have to goose it even more than a gasoline engine.
Or in other words, putting a diesel plant that is on the small side for a certain vehicle will hurt real-life fuel economy
LEDFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2007, 12:14 PM   #24
bobholthaus
Member
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 373
You may have to explain that one more time...
__________________
'07 GC CRD Limited - OEM 08 HID's - OEM 08 Chrome 18" Wheels - 265/60-18 Bridgestone Revo 2s - Valentine 1 - Weathertech Cargo Liner & Mats - UConnect - PIAA 1000 Driving Lights - Garmin 750 - Cargo Area LEDs - Mopar Remote Start - HID fogs
bobholthaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2007, 01:16 PM   #25
Tuco
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 486
Quote:
The _difference_ in fuel economy of a diesel engine over a gasoline engine is almost all at partial throttle.
Put the pedal to the metal on your diesel plant and you will have a fuel consumption nearly as high as a gasoline engine.
Maybe on some vehicles, but not mine. We have two 30 year old International Scouts Powered by 3 liter Nissan Turbo Diesels. Super slow ( Cant get any slower). But they get better fuel economy than our new CRD Jeep and definitely better fuel economy than any gas powered SUV of similar size. The Scouts weigh more, have no overdrive yet they get probably 2 times better fuel economy than all other gas SUV's. To get these Scouts moving, one needs WOT most of the time!
__________________
07 WK CRD Limited
Tuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2007, 01:43 PM   #26
merlinTec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,944
Hi All
Well had a look at this unit today on a 300c and had a nice 29.7 MPG (was 30.1 when I got in it but I left it at idle when I went for the camera)

and this guy got it for the power not economy so you can guess how he drives it, donít know what he could get if he took it steady.
It plugs into number 1 and 4 injectors, rail pressure sensor, intake pressure sensor / intake temp sensor and high pressure injection pump and that is all, not into the ECM. So I would say it does what it does by better control of the fuel pressure and turbo boost pressure. It canít alter injection duration or timing. All it could do is maybe manipulate the ECM into altering the injection duration and timing by giving it different boost pressure, intake temp and rail pressure readings then they actually are. It is very very easy to fit, even my 5 year old could probably do it and there is no setting up, itís just plug and play.


Last edited by merlinTec; 07-24-2007 at 03:08 PM..
merlinTec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2007, 12:57 AM   #27
jeep_on
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco
The Scouts weigh more, have no overdrive yet they get probably 2 times better fuel economy than all other gas SUV's. To get these Scouts moving, one needs WOT most of the time!
So your telling me these Scouts are pulling 30mpg? I wanta see that. And if you need WOT to get them moving I think you need to think about regearing them.

No more clicky for the pics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinTec
Hi All
Well had a look at this unit today on a 300c and had a nice 29.7 MPG (was 30.1 when I got in it but I left it at idle when I went for the camera)

and this guy got it for the power not economy so you can guess how he drives it, donít know what he could get if he took it steady.
It plugs into number 1 and 4 injectors, rail pressure sensor, intake pressure sensor / intake temp sensor and high pressure injection pump and that is all, not into the ECM. So I would say it does what it does by better control of the fuel pressure and turbo boost pressure. It canít alter injection duration or timing. All it could do is maybe manipulate the ECM into altering the injection duration and timing by giving it different boost pressure, intake temp and rail pressure readings then they actually are. It is very very easy to fit, even my 5 year old could probably do it and there is no setting up, itís just plug and play.

__________________
2006 Dodge RAM Laramie w/ 5.9L I6
2010 Volkswagen Jetta w/ TDI 2.0L I4

Waiting on a 2013 RHD JK Unlimited


Quote:
Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
Wait, you can't cross creeks up there? What the Hell is up with these Canadians?
jeep_on is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2007, 08:36 AM   #28
Tuco
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 486
The Scouts get about 22 in the city and 26 on the highway. I overstated earlier. They get twice that of a gas Scout, but certainly not twice that of any newer gas SUV. They avg 24 consistantly as we do about 50/50 driving. Not bad for 30 year old trucks that have the aerodynamics of a brick and no overdrive etc. However, they are sometimes dirty, noisy and gutless. They look great are easy to maintain and are great off road as the engine does have a lot of grunt when in 4low. The 3.0 CRD has approximately the same economy but way more power, comfort, towing capabilities and is cleaner. We got the luxury CRD Jeep because we are old now and wanted a quiet, comfortable ride.
__________________
07 WK CRD Limited
Tuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2007, 09:37 AM   #29
bobholthaus
Member
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 373
Okay guys, my dealer called me back this morning and confirmed what the German distributor sent to me in the email below, and that is, $2200 US and can't confirm whether the car will conform to any emissions standards. The US dealers DO NOT support this upgrade at this time, only in Europe.

Below is the email I received this morning from Christoph.Dietze@brabus.com (Brabus is a well known tuner of MB's, featured in Car and Driver for decades. It's top shelf stuff!!) Although I don't understand all of this, the $2200 price will prevent me from trying it out. If any of you are still interested, I can forward you the actual emails or you can email Chris directly. The first PDF's he sent me were in German, and although my last name is Holthaus, I cannot read German! Thanks.

07/25/07

Dear Mr. Holthaus,

Thank you very much for your inquiry and interest shown in our company and
products.

Is it legal?

The performance kit is T‹V (Technical Observation Organisation) certified
here in Germany (see attached file). All modifications to vehicles in
Germany required approval by an independent technical inspector and are
documented in the vehicles paperwork in order to ensure road worthiness
and insurance coverage. As for the laws in the United States we are not
able to confirm but the T‹V certificates are generally accepted throughout
Europe and the rest of the world.

Do Chrysler dealer's here support it?

We do not officially distribute our products through Chrysler Jeep and
Dodge in the United States. The performance kits are however, part of the
product range offered by DaimlerChrysler UK (United Kingdom). I have seen
that a dealer or dealer representative has posted in the thread and given
the UK part number for our product.

What is the cost?

The list price for the SD6 kit here in Germany is 1.590,00 Euro not
including shipping. Based on the exchange rate today it would equal approx
2,199.12 USD

Other questions in the thread concerning function of the kit :

Please see the attached file concerning the function of our performance
kit, as you probably know we are a daughter company of BRABUS and the
engine in question is based on a Mercedes Benz motor used in current
models. The kit was adapted and a seperate programm written by BRABUS
engineers for use on the Grand Cherokee. The kit performs in conjunction
with the diesel particle filter, allowing it to go through the "burn"
cycle by deactivating itself while this process is being run.

To date we have not installed a SD6 kit on a US Spec vehicle and do not
have information concerning the software versions installed on US Spec
vehicles or differences if any to the European Spec.

Our European customers are all very happy with the increase in
performance. As for the increase in fuel economy this is very possible as
you have an increase in torque available. Using the added torque rather
than throttle for the same accleration will equate in slightly less diesel
consumption. Though we must remind you that comsumption is very dependent
on driving style, loading, wheel tire combination etc.

If you have any further questions please let us know.

Mit freundlichen GrŁŖen
Best regards

CRD
Car Research & Development GmbH & Co. KG

Manager Vertrieb Export
Export Sales Manager

i.A. Christoph Dietze

Phone: +49(0)2041/777-517
Fax: +49(0)2041/777-111
Mobile: +49(0)172/342-1284
mailto: christoph.dietze@brabus.com
Internet: www.startech.de

CRD Car Research & Development GmbH & Co. Betriebs KG, Brabus Allee,
D-46240 Bottrop, Germany
AG Gelsenkirchen, HRA 2495, persŲnlich haftender Gesellschafter: STARTECH
Cars GmbH,
AG Gelsenkirchen, HRB 5124, GF/CEO Prof. h.c. Bodo Buschmann
__________________
'07 GC CRD Limited - OEM 08 HID's - OEM 08 Chrome 18" Wheels - 265/60-18 Bridgestone Revo 2s - Valentine 1 - Weathertech Cargo Liner & Mats - UConnect - PIAA 1000 Driving Lights - Garmin 750 - Cargo Area LEDs - Mopar Remote Start - HID fogs
bobholthaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-25-2007, 11:01 AM   #30
merlinTec
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,944
hi
UK price is just under £1300 + tax if thats give you a better exchange rate.
merlinTec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.