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Unread 07-17-2008, 05:54 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish_Mish View Post
Are all of tuning boxes based no dumping more fuel pressure into cylinders?
Fancy tuning box manufacturers swear that they have nothing to do with fuel pressure, but instead offer more refined engine management, real time tuning for each partucular engine. I just bought Brabus D6 kit, should be here in a day, or two, however after reading warning posts from more cautions members here, I am not sure if I want to install it if all it does is rasing fuel pressure and overheating exhaust, by doing so.
BTW, can someone recommend good exhaust temp sensor kit?
My understanding of tuning boxes is that they take input from one or more sensors, modify that input, and then send the modified output to the ECU in the vehicle. The tuning boxes are preferred by most because they are completely stealth to the dealer because they can simply be removed when you take it in for service.

The alternate, usually more expensive, and better way (my opinion) is to chiptune the vehicle. In this case the ECU is reprogrammed or modified and the programmer has more control over everything. In some cases, the dealer can detect these modifications and may void warranty and/or possibly reflash it when it is in for service.

In the case of the tuning boxes, they can only modify or control what is plugged into them.....is they may be talking about in advertent changes based on how they are fooling the ECU. It's hard to say and many of them don't go into any detail as to how they modify these signals or change the performance of the vehicle....that makes me even more skeptical of them.

The cheapest way in the diesel powered vehicle is to simply add fuel....more fuel more power. The good thing about some of the ECU tunes or performance tuners is that they can actually monitor things like slippage of the transmission and defuel the engine to compensate. The same would apply for EGT and some of them even come with probes in other applications. These are modules like the Edge Evolution tuner for the fords. They are pretty stealth too and I guess they are kind of a 3rd type of performance programmer. They plug into the OBD-II port and program it that way.

I tend to be partial against performance chipping of any kind. Mainly due to all the bad things I have seen happen when people use them. Wierd things develop like surgest as certain loads or RPM, they throw CEL right and left, expensive parts like Turbos, clutches, or other drivetrain parts fail prematurely. Some of it of course could be from the fact that people are driving the cars harder because of the new power, but I tend to trust the engineers who put much more time and energy into designing the vehicle but again they are designing it to be relaible and efficient and not squeezing every last bit of HP or torque out of it....but again....from my expereince with doing it on a Volvo and friends/family who have done it....I choose to steer away from it.

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Unread 07-17-2008, 08:26 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Three Oh DSL View Post
If you read above, the CR and CR+ are not raising fuel pressure; as stated from the mfgr and personal road tests.
Any company that does not list phone number for support on their site is not worthy of modifying my property. All these small boxes look like they have one resistor inside, IMO. The only reason I decided to pay for Brabus, is because Mercedes covers Brabus tuned cars under factory warranty. I do need exhaust temp probe to monitor what aftermarket box will do my engine, and if it pushes it to the limit, I'll just ebay it back.
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Unread 07-17-2008, 10:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mish_Mish View Post
Any company that does not list phone number for support on their site is not worthy of modifying my property. All these small boxes look like they have one resistor inside, IMO. The only reason I decided to pay for Brabus, is because Mercedes covers Brabus tuned cars under factory warranty. I do need exhaust temp probe to monitor what aftermarket box will do my engine, and if it pushes it to the limit, I'll just ebay it back.
I've talked with the owner of TDC directly. He's done well by me. Perhaps if you were interested in the performance of the company at all you could have asked.

While the Startech (Brabus) SD6 is covered under warranty, in Europe, it won't do you much good if the device causes failure in the United States. So the question you'll have to prepare yourself to answer is: How far is 'too far'?

As for the TDC having a resistor: Is this to say the product is inferior? If you're going to modify an electrical signal, just short of an ECU tune this seems a pretty logical way to do so. It would be wise not to conclude that since the SD6 attaches to the ECU or several sensors, it doesn't perform exactly the same as a resistor-based signal modifier.

To each his own, as they say.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 07:07 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Oh DSL View Post
While the Startech (Brabus) SD6 is covered under warranty, in Europe, it won't do you much good if the device causes failure in the United States. So the question you'll have to prepare yourself to answer is: How far is 'too far'?
You are right there. What I was saying is Mercedes probably looked into SD6 design prior to allowing installation on their fleet under warranty.
Again, I will see how it does and if it gives me CEL, or something, back to ebay it will be.
My main goal in this whole tuning idea is to push accelerator less, in order to save some fuel and get better throttle response, because right now when I hit the pegal, there is half second delay.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 07:17 AM   #95
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Gosh, I hope it does. If so, I'll be buying one also. Thus far we've attributed this delay to the ETC and turbo lag.

--Brings to mind a question: Have you read anywhere that this unit is compatible with WKs in addition to WHs? We had discussed earlier that the ECU unit measurements or signals could be different thus making the SD6 un-useable for us in the USDM. -Just curious. Thanks!
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Unread 07-18-2008, 08:11 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Three Oh DSL View Post
Gosh, I hope it does. If so, I'll be buying one also. Thus far we've attributed this delay to the ETC and turbo lag.

--Brings to mind a question: Have you read anywhere that this unit is compatible with WKs in addition to WHs? We had discussed earlier that the ECU unit measurements or signals could be different thus making the SD6 un-useable for us in the USDM. -Just curious. Thanks!
I did not go into such detail, but with D6 unit being real time self tuning, I hope it will work with exactly same engine. Also, my risk is minimal, becuase if it does not work I will make some money on ebay, these are not available in US, so local E 320 CDI owners will be happy to lay some cash on yours truly.

Step two, if Brabus fails, I already spoke to Spider Performance and they confirmed that thair box will work on Grand Chrokee with CRD.

> Hello
>
> Our system works very well on this engine. When you select your Country on
> our shopping cart it will take off the VAT if you are US based. It is
> available direct from here:
> http://www.dieseltuning.co.uk/chrysl...el-tuning.html
>
> Kind regards
> Mike
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Unread 07-18-2008, 08:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish_Mish View Post
I did not go into such detail, but with D6 unit being real time self tuning, I hope it will work with exactly same engine. Also, my risk is minimal, becuase if it does not work I will make some money on ebay, these are not available in US, so local E 320 CDI owners will be happy to lay some cash on yours truly.

Step two, if Brabus fails, I already spoke to Spider Performance and they confirmed that thair box will work on Grand Chrokee with CRD.

> Hello
>
> Our system works very well on this engine. When you select your Country on
> our shopping cart it will take off the VAT if you are US based. It is
> available direct from here:
> http://www.dieseltuning.co.uk/chrysl...el-tuning.html
>
> Kind regards
> Mike
Maybe I missed it somewhere but where did you buy it?
Does anyone know if US Mercedes warranties any of these?
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Unread 07-18-2008, 09:09 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by LJS8510 View Post
Maybe I missed it somewhere but where did you buy it?
Does anyone know if US Mercedes warranties any of these?
Some dude in UK sells a lot of MB and Brabus stuff. Got it fairly cheap. Obviously no Mercedes dealership going to cover Jeep with Brabus gizmo in it My hope is that this box made under MB approval and supervision, so I do not have to trust less reputable tuners.
Again, my main goal is to decrease takoff delay, it already caused me fairly dangerous merge into busy traffic with some honking and name calling...
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Unread 07-18-2008, 09:59 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish_Mish View Post
Some dude in UK sells a lot of MB and Brabus stuff. Got it fairly cheap. Obviously no Mercedes dealership going to cover Jeep with Brabus gizmo in it My hope is that this box made under MB approval and supervision, so I do not have to trust less reputable tuners.
Again, my main goal is to decrease takoff delay, it already caused me fairly dangerous merge into busy traffic with some honking and name calling...

Thanks,
I agree the delay on take-off is pretty bad. I have had a few horns honked squawk at me also. It is dangerous, most of the time I have some power on take off but other times I hit it and nothing.

Please keep us up to date on it.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 11:41 AM   #100
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WHere can I get a small CEL reader to clear up my codes. I got the same one you get. I have an 08 with cr plus installed and cannot run it above 8 or I get CEL. THanks for your help.
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I have a small CEL reader that cleared up the codes for me. The code was P0087. Anyway, I backed it up until the light didn't come back on. It would come on if I mashed on the go pedal between half and 3/4. Now I believe I'm at level A. I will check tomorrow and see. Do you think that Jeep might have adjusted the '08 computer. Man but what a difference in power. It almost feels like my 300C hemi, but with wayyyyy more torque!
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Unread 07-18-2008, 01:58 PM   #101
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The Spider tuning looks to have about the same horsepower and about 40 more lbs/ft tq. than the TDC, (overall, 80lbs/ft. above stock). From this I'd deduce they're not adding much if any boost over the stock 23psi ceiling.

Of course, we might all have our feet in our mouths as none of the tuners are showing dyno graphs. A local tuning shop is bringing an all-wheel dyno to town in a week or so. I'll be sure to get some runs with and without the TDC CR so we know roughly where we stand.

One thing to keep in mind, until a tune shows up with significant horsepower and torque increases it's safe to say they're all just adding fuel.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:01 PM   #102
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WHere can I get a small CEL reader to clear up my codes. I got the same one you get. I have an 08 with cr plus installed and cannot run it above 8 or I get CEL. THanks for your help.
If you're not interested in a DashHawk I'd recommend you stop by Advance Autoparts or PartsAmerica, etc. They'll read and clear codes for you via OBD-II, most of the time for free. They also sell these units (generally Scantron brand) in the range of about 50-200 bucks. Keep in mind, the DH cost just about as much and has WAY more features.

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Unread 07-18-2008, 04:54 PM   #103
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Thanks,
I agree the delay on take-off is pretty bad. I have had a few horns honked squawk at me also. It is dangerous, most of the time I have some power on take off but other times I hit it and nothing.

Please keep us up to date on it.
Same thing here, but 1 second later, they're trying to catch up!
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:26 PM   #104
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Same thing here, but 1 second later, they're trying to catch up!
Americans want it now, not one second later
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:34 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Three Oh DSL View Post
The Spider tuning looks to have about the same horsepower and about 40 more lbs/ft tq. than the TDC, (overall, 80lbs/ft. above stock). From this I'd deduce they're not adding much if any boost over the stock 23psi ceiling.

Of course, we might all have our feet in our mouths as none of the tuners are showing dyno graphs. A local tuning shop is bringing an all-wheel dyno to town in a week or so. I'll be sure to get some runs with and without the TDC CR so we know roughly where we stand.

One thing to keep in mind, until a tune shows up with significant horsepower and torque increases it's safe to say they're all just adding fuel.
I have the Spider, boost is untouched 23-24psi for increasing the boost they have a separate unit. The thing that really appealed to me about the Spider was the ability to switch fuel maps from a sport mode when driven spirited to economy when not. So far my best mpg(all city) with the spider has been 21.38mpg and worst has been the stock rating of 19.6, not bad considering the 3.0 seriously kicks some a$$ now.
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