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Unread 05-18-2008, 01:33 PM   #16
Swayse
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Now I'm interested I couldn't see how it would increase power without increasing rail pressure, but the whole rail temperature thing makes sense. I wonder if fooling the rail temperature also increases timing, because that would really help mpg.

Adding a Smarty programmer on my Dodge Cummins really helped out the mpg, at least 2 to 3 mpg. Anybody with a Dodge Cummins, get a Smarty

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Unread 05-18-2008, 10:24 PM   #17
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I have the CR+. It came preset on 3, and there is a noticeable increase in low speed torque, no change noticed in mileage. I haven't had the guts yet to increase the setting, but I have another user that has tried it and says it is great.

In your PM you mentioned the CR+ is now on preset six. I wouldn't go higher than six, depending on your driving habits. When I installed the EGT, my CR was set to eight. I found out quickly that it is not hard to hit temps of 1,200 degrees or more if you're really pushing the throttle. This is generally limited to uphill climbs and/or long distance accelerations.

The next question in my mind would be "What temperature should be the absolute maximum for exhaust gas?" I do not know whether the pistons in our diesels are cast or forged but generally speaking this only changes their tolerances by about 100 or so degrees in exhaust gas. I would surmise that 1,350 to 1400 degrees should be the highest temperatures in short duration. Hopefully others will offer opinions on this.

If anyone is planning on installing chips/programmers, etc. for their diesel, a pyrometer is a must.

I'll post pictures from the install this week.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 07:30 AM   #18
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Great info, thanks.

How is hooking up Dashawk, any photo's of this.
Does the TDC need to be removed for dealer or emission checks?
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Unread 05-19-2008, 08:53 AM   #19
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If everything is working properly, 1250º to 1300º F. is a safe turbine inlet temperature, even for sustained running, mile after mile. Above 1300º F. things can start to get edgy. Remember, excessive EGT damage is cumulative. Over 1400º F., you’re usually gambling against a stacked deck and it’s only a matter of time until you lose. The higher the EGT, the shorter that time will be.(courtesy of Banks Diesel)
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Unread 05-19-2008, 09:19 AM   #20
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If everything is working properly, 1250º to 1300º F. is a safe turbine inlet temperature, even for sustained running, mile after mile. Above 1300º F. things can start to get edgy. Remember, excessive EGT damage is cumulative. Over 1400º F., you’re usually gambling against a stacked deck and it’s only a matter of time until you lose. The higher the EGT, the shorter that time will be.(courtesy of Banks Diesel)
Brilliant! I feel compelled to get that tattooed to the back of my driving hand.

Admittedly, I'm still learning the boundaries of safe exhaust gas and there's as much misinformation out there as there are opinions. I've heard that up to 1300 degrees would be a safe maximum. I would never feel comfortable running 14-1500 for any reason.

-------------------------------------------

I'll try to get all of my install pictures up today. Thanks for the input guys. We're making this a very useful thread.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 10:27 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Three Oh DSL View Post
Admittedly, I'm still learning the boundaries of safe exhaust gas and there's as much misinformation out there as there are opinions. I've heard that up to 1300 degrees would be a safe maximum. I would never feel comfortable running 14-1500 for any reason.
Especially since your aluminum/alloy pistons have a melting point of approx.1,200 F.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 10:50 AM   #22
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Would the exhaust temp reading actually be lower than the internal temp?
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Unread 05-19-2008, 12:21 PM   #23
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Especially since your aluminum/alloy pistons have a melting point of approx.1,200 F.
That melting point should have a time curve associated with it. Could you indicate your source of that information?



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EGT's are closer to actual combustion temp the nearer the probe is to the exhaust port.

My probe is nearly inside the port at the tip. I should hope this is as true a temp as can obtained.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 12:28 PM   #24
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the melting point of aluminum is actually ~933*K or ~1220*F therefore with whatever alloy is combined with aluminum the melting point of the pistons themselves should be around 1250*F or a bit more... but let's remember kiddies it takes metal a WHILE to heat up...
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Unread 05-19-2008, 12:35 PM   #25
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Don't forget that the pistons are oil-cooled, and that there is an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger. Remember back in school-daze boiling water in a Styrofoam cup over a bunsen burner?
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Unread 05-19-2008, 02:00 PM   #26
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I have checked with a professional diesel mechanic and he confirms the 12-1300 temp at the turbo is an operating normal. He says the piston temp will be nowhere near that hot. Please find your own reputable sources however, I am not mechanically inclined and I don't want to lose all my friends.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 02:56 PM   #27
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I have checked with a professional diesel mechanic and he confirms the 12-1300 temp at the turbo is an operating normal. He says the piston temp will be nowhere near that hot. Please find your own reputable sources however, I am not mechanically inclined and I don't want to lose all my friends.
yeah, the piston surface temp will be lower than the EGT. I couldn't tell you how much though.
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Unread 05-19-2008, 09:17 PM   #28
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Here's a data log from a short run today. Acceleration from a 40MPH roll to 70MPH took about seven seconds. This was a slight uphill run. Sorry for the grain. The forums have a really low limit for JPGs.

Attachment 48765

Max Values:
-----------
RPM: 4,300
BOOST: 22.5psi
EGT: 1200*F
FUEL PRES: 23,000psi
SPEED: 40-70MPH

----------

As for the pistons: A tech informed me that the Benz engine uses a molybdenum-coated aluminium alloy piston. In theory the maximum sustained operating temperature should be around 1200-1250 degrees Fahrenheit. Damage will occur at 1300 degrees and (as mentioned earlier) will be cumulative.

The tech also mentioned the piston crown temperature should be higher than EGTs due to carbon deposits insulating the surface.


A WORD OF CAUTION FOR TUNERS
Exhaust temps hover around 800 to 1,000 degrees during normal driving. When the DPF is in REGEN these temperatures will soar. Feathering the throttle does little to keep the temps below 1,150 degrees. The DPF can reach a toasty 1,350 degrees.

A major flaw, (IMO) is the proximity of the CAT and DPF to the turbo and each other. Once these devices become heat soaked they cause a lot of heat insulation. I am very interested to see where the numbers land after removing these problems. The DPF in the '07 model year JGC has a single temperature sensor and *what appear to be* two fuel delivery lines. I would imagine the removal should be pretty simple.

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Unread 05-20-2008, 10:21 AM   #29
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A WORD OF CAUTION FOR TUNERS
Exhaust temps hover around 800 to 1,000 degrees during normal driving. When the DPF is in REGEN these temperatures will soar. Feathering the throttle does little to keep the temps below 1,150 degrees. The DPF can reach a toasty 1,350 degrees.

A major flaw, (IMO) is the proximity of the CAT and DPF to the turbo and each other. Once these devices become heat soaked they cause a lot of heat insulation. I am very interested to see where the numbers land after removing these problems. The DPF in the '07 model year JGC has a single temperature sensor and *what appear to be* two fuel delivery lines. I would imagine the removal should be pretty simple.
Wait, there are fuel lines going to the DPF? Does that mean the regeneration cycle then not work by means of exhaust-stroke injection?
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Unread 05-20-2008, 11:39 AM   #30
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I'll double check this to confirm, but indeed the lines were fed up the firewall to the area of the rail.
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