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Unread 07-10-2014, 03:07 PM   #1
subysti
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Bunch of codes and bad hesitation

2007 Overland with 5.7 hemi
OK I've searched here and found a lot of people with the same issue but no one ever seems to post a resolution.
Codes are
P0300
P0206
P0208
P3401
P3425
P3441
P3449
Mostly happens when the car is first started and then will go away about 80% of the time, sometimes will get bad while driving and check engine light will flash.
Plugs aren't that old, checked a few of them and they seem fine, they are coppers. Checked the ones in #6 & #8 and they are good.
checked and reseated connections on injectors and coils. Checked and cleaned the throttle body, wasn't that bad as I do it yearly
I guess what makes me think its something further upstream of the injectors is the first code of multiple random misfires.

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Unread 07-10-2014, 03:31 PM   #2
colinzj
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With that many codes, I'd be load testing the battery and checking all the battery and ground connections.

P0300: Random Misfire
P0206: Injector Circuit Fault, Cylinder 6
P0208: Injector Circuit Fault, Cylinder 8
P3401: MDS Solenoid 1 Circuit Fault
P3425: MDS Solenoid 4 Circuit Fault
P3441: MDS Solenoid 6 Circuit Fault
P3449: MDS Solenoid 7 Circuit Fault

Possible MDS fault causes:
  • Solenoid circuit shorted to battery voltage
  • Solenoid circuit shorted to ground
  • Solenoid circuit open
  • Ground circuit open
  • Solenoid failure
  • PCM failure
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Unread 07-10-2014, 03:48 PM   #3
subysti
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OK I'm an idiot here about the MDS system. Where are these solenoids located? I'm and electrical engineer so I can test but I need to know where they are and the wiring associated with them. I don't have any shop manuals for this truck, I guess I need to get them also.
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Unread 07-11-2014, 08:21 PM   #4
subysti
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anyone?
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Unread 07-11-2014, 10:33 PM   #5
ZWilson07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subysti View Post
anyone?
Honestly I wouldn't even start with that. There is a very very small chance all of those are just suddenly going off or bad.

If i was you id reset my system and reset the codes. Recheck battery and grounds. Then see what comes back.

But to answer your question if I remembers correctly they are located underneath the intake manifold. You will see the wiring and hold down bolts for them.
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Unread 07-12-2014, 07:51 AM   #6
subysti
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I've cleared the codes and these are what keep coming back. I will clean battery terminals today and check as many grounds as I can find. Terminals look good but who knows about what's between the post and connection.
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Unread 07-19-2014, 02:36 PM   #7
subysti
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OK still getting these errors. checked all the plugs and they are good, cleaned terminals on battery even though they weren't bad. Reseated connectors on ECM. Seems to be just codes P3401 P3425 P3441 P3449 coming back now. Drove fine for a week or so then these came back. Once in a while get P0300 random misfire. Most of the time it happens right at start up but it did happen the other day while driving on the highway towing our boat with the tow/haul mode on. EGR and plugs all less than a year on them. Is there a better scanner out there that might tell me what is causing this besides the dealer? Was going to replace the MAF sensor but no one locally has one.
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Unread 07-21-2014, 08:58 AM   #8
subysti
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OK just an update. Checked the battery and all seems good. standing voltage at 12.4VDC. While starting dropped to about 10.9VDC which isn't bad and while running its at 13.9VDC. So that all seems good to me.
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Unread 07-21-2014, 01:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subysti View Post
OK just an update. Checked the battery and all seems good. standing voltage at 12.4VDC. While starting dropped to about 10.9VDC which isn't bad and while running its at 13.9VDC. So that all seems good to me.
12.4 seems a bit off spec:

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Unread 07-22-2014, 04:12 AM   #10
caulk04
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You don't have a MAF sensor, that's why nobody has one.
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Unread 07-22-2014, 06:40 AM   #11
RCS1300
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If all of those codes present at startup I suspect the battery does not have enough juice under load without the alternator. How old is the battery? If you drive a lot of short distances or live in a hot environment the battery will only last a couple of years.
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Unread 07-23-2014, 01:11 PM   #12
subysti
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Well the battery is just at 3 years old now, diehard gold. Live in Mass so its not always hot here. Drove it this weekend and towed our boat and it ran fine. Today I drove it to store, about 20 minutes, ran fine. Get out of store and start it, and its running like crap. BTW its 92 degrees today. Driving it and it doesn't get better in tow mode either. Drive to the closest dealership to see if they will scan it for me, took about 20 minutes to get there and on the way starts to run good again, then crappy again. Dealership says 2 weeks is earliest, I tell them it because these are all pieces of crap. Called 3 dealerships and all are at least 10 days to get in. I hate to just throw parts at it. I'm going to drive it around with my hand held scanner and watch the real time data and see if anything looks way off. How about fuel pump?
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Unread 07-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #13
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Careful. Do not drive and watch the scanner as that can lead to an accident.

Based on the codes I doubt it is a fuel pump issue.

I do not have the Multiple Displacement 5.7L engine. In reading the service manual though it appears the logical process is to test each of the solenoid circuits that present codes with a 12v test light and scanner to activate each solenoid. It looks like the choices are replace the solenoid or fix the circuit (check for corrosion at the connectors or shorts in circuit) or clear a blocked oil passage. There is a video on youtube that shows you how to test the solenoids without a scanner. I have not done any of this...so....

Based on my reading of the Service Manual, these MDS solenoids are responsible for transitioning the engine from 8 to 4 cylinders. They do this by switching on oil pressure to raise a pair of lifters that coincide with each particular solenoid. The oil pressure pushes locking pins that allow the lifter to collapse and decouple the valves and camshaft.

Lots of moving parts. I can see why an intermittent malfunction of one or more MDS solenoids can make the vehicle run rough. What is puzzling is why would all four MDS solenoids present codes at the same time unless the failure of one affected the ability of the others to perform correctly. I do not know. But, it doesn't seem logical that all four MDS solenoids would fail at once. It may be a more global issue like the engine oil level or a corroded circuit connection that is intermittently affecting all solenoids. So, that would probably be at the ECM not each solenoid since all solenoids presented codes. Maybe check the engine oil level first?

If you are mechanically inclined it may be a good idea after checking the engine oil level and the electrical connections of the MDS solenoids to test the MDS solenoids to make sure they are functioning correctly. You will probably need a Service Manual for the wiring diagrams and to get to the MDS solenoids as the intake manifold has to be removed. I do not think that is hard but pictures, diagrams, and step by step instructions are always good to have.
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Unread 07-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #14
subysti
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OK just went out and fired it up again and it runs fine again but here are screen shots from the scanner. I also stopped by the NAPA store and had them load test the battery. According to thoer handy dandy digital tester I should replace the battery. It was rated at 765 CCA and was down to 560CCA. Also said battery condition was poor although it had a 12.5VDC charge. OK so lets say its the battery. Why would it start up and run fine then start to run crappy 10 minutes later? At that point the alternator should be running everything.


Oh and I see the outside temp is off but it had just been driven and was sitting there for 15 minutes. Once I started driving it the temp went down to about 95 with the outside temp at 92.
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img_20140723_152408_312.jpg  
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Unread 07-23-2014, 03:47 PM   #15
RCS1300
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The battery issue does make sense as the MDS Solenoids require power to operate correctly.

Wouldn't it be great if the problem was caused by simply the battery and maybe the engine oil level? I do not know what kind of power draw it takes to run those 4 MDS solenoids plus all of the other electronics - eight fuel injectors, spark plugs, radios, air conditioning fan, etc. Maybe more than what is available with a low functioning battery and good alternator?

If you need a new battery based on tests, I would do that first, then check the engine oil level and hope that fixes the problem.

Another good test would be to drive the vehicle without turning on any electrical things like A/C, fans, radios, lights, etc. Turning on and off these items that draw amps would certainly explain the intermittent nature of the problem.
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