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Unread 06-04-2013, 12:27 PM   #1
OTownDaddy
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5 codes at once...CAT+MDS

So, you probably don't see this everyday.

My XK has been rock solid until the last 2 weeks.

I'll be driving, minding my own business then the Jeep starts to run rough, feels like it's hesitating, then boom! 5 codes thrown.

0430 - cat under threshold bank 2
3401 - MDS solenoid Cyl. 1 (activ/deactiv issues for valve)
3425 - MDS solenoid Cyl. 4 (activ/deactiv issues for valve)
3441 - MDS solenoid Cyl. 6 (activ/deactiv issues for valve)
3449 - MDS solenoid Cyl. 7 (activ/deactiv issues for valve)

So, this sounds pretty crappy. Codes clear after 30-40 miles then re-assert.

Any ideas and/or fixes that don't involve the stealership would be greatly appreciated.

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Unread 06-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #2
OTownDaddy
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So, took our to the dealer today. They think it was the cat going bad that was causing the other issues. Everything else was fine. Luckily I'm still in the 80K emissions warranty period.

They did say that those codes can be thrown by a lot of things including being low on gas. Interesting.
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Unread 06-07-2013, 12:18 PM   #3
OTownDaddy
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Well, so much for the dealership solving my problems.

Driving around at lunch today had the 4 cylinder codes re-emerge. No cat code this time. So much for the cat causing the issues. I've read through a lot of threads on this issue and hoping that my fix is a loose wire on something.

Any ideas are appreciated.
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Unread 06-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #4
OTownDaddy
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More info from other forums:

***********************************************
Okay, I'm no professional mechanic, but here from the service manual are what the codes stand for, and what I think of the matter:

P3401-MDS SOLENOID 1 CIRCUIT
P3425-MDS SOLENOID 4 CIRCUIT
P3441-MDS SOLENOID 6 CIRCUIT
P3449-MDS SOLENOID 7 CIRCUIT

After looking into the diagnostic instructions, and considering that a power train control module (PCM) ground is common to all four solenoids, I'd say the ground circuit of the PCM is having a problem. Perhaps a corroded or loose connection. I could look up the ground connection location for you. Probably a nut or screw somewhere near the cabin air filter where the PCM is situated.
The service manual has detailed instructions and diagrams. If you can wait a couple of days, and you'd like, I can scan them into a PDF file and e-mail them to you if you send me a private message (PM) with your e-mail address in the body of the e-mail.
Personally, if the rest of the car is okay and the price is right, I'd buy it and deal with the codes afterwards because they do not seem terminal. Or have the seller fix the problem first as it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. And if you don't like the multiple displacement system (MDS) you won't have to do anything!

You might ask the seller if he had the MDS deactivated intentionally, and to reactivate it (or tell you how to) if you want it to work.

Further, all four solenoids use the same ground circuit. You might inspect the ground leads from each through any splices back to their common ground point.

In addition to all four solenoids using ground G102 (bolted to the body at the top of the right strut tower) all four use splices S136, connector C101, splice S115, and connector C100 as the wires are routed from each individual solenoid back to ground G102 and the PCM.

You'll need to verify that each splice is solid and that each connector is dry, clean, and secure.

If you have any electrical knowledge and ability, before you go ripping apart the engine, you may want to do some resistance/continuity and voltage testing. The service manual instructions and diagrams I referred to in my earlier post could be extremely helpful. My offer to print, scan. and e-mail them to you still stands. Or better yet you should be able to search for and secure your own service manual from info available on the Chrysler forums.

In the meantime the good news, if there is any, is that it appears that you are only suffering from an inoperative MDS, which some owners might actually envy!
*******************************************

Hopefully this is just a ground issue.
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Unread 06-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #5
90grandoneer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTownDaddy View Post
So, took our to the dealer today. They think it was the cat going bad that was causing the other issues. They did say that those codes can be thrown by a lot of things including being low on gas. Interesting.
I'd sure like to know their rationale for saying a bad cat. will cause 4 separate MDS related codes to be thrown??? If being low on gas can cause these codes, I should get them all the time......but I don't. I think your stealer is not too swift, and I'd stay away from them if that's the way they troubleshoot problems. Personally, I think you didn't have your seatbelt properly positioned, or your tire pressure was low, and that's why you got the MDS codes.....LOL!!

All kidding aside, it looks like you're heading in the right direction and have all the info. from the FSM. IMO, look at everything common to all solenoids, especially the wiring to and from the PCM/solenoids and the grounds. I would think that if it were an overall MDS System issue you'd not get individual solenoid codes. Let us know what you find.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 09:52 AM   #6
OTownDaddy
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So, more updates.

Codes return.

I got it back to the stealership and they said that basically there are only 2 things left to fix: the wiring harness/solenoids and the PCM. So, they replaced the PCM under warranty. Let's see where that goes.

Their rationale about the CAT and the codes is a little roundabout. They are speculating that the solenoids were malfunctioning, allowing unburnt fuel to find it's way to the CAT. All that unburnt fuel over time overheated the CAT and it failed. They also think that the solenoids blew the PCM, but of course can't prove it since they can't test individual solenoids. So, if they're right, then i should still have problems from the "bad" solenoids.

We'll see.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #7
90grandoneer
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Oh no, not again, LOL!!! Unfortunately, the MDS Solenoids don't have anything to do with the amount of fuel being dumped into the engine, except when they're actuated. If there is a malfunction in the MDS system, the PCM shuts the MDS off entirely. As long as they replaced the PCM without cost to you, that is a good thing, because it takes (or should take) it out of the loop of potential causes. (Based on their rationale, if the PCM is not the problem, you may end up with another bad PCM.) It would certainly be different if you were paying for it, and it didn't fix the problem. I would think that, since the codes were reflecting solenoid issues, the wiring harness and the solenoids would be the first place to look, not the last. In a way, I do understand why they did the PCM though.....because they're lazy and it's relatively easy to do. Also, did I miss something? If the cat. has failed, did they replace it too?

Are you completely under warranty on this vehicle? If so, don't let up on them. If not, make sure they troubleshoot the problem(s) by following the steps outlined in the FSM, before they arbitrarily start replacing parts at your expense. If they have to pull the intake manifold to get to the solenoids, so be it, but they should be able to "pretty much" determine if they (solenoids) are the problem by ringing (ohming) out the wires from the PCM to the solenoids and back. It may also tell them if there is a wiring harness issue. In any case, it would tell them if there is a short or grounding condition somewhere in each (or all) solenoid circuit(s).

Again, please keep us informed on what happens, and if it returns.....the stealer's "progress".
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Unread 06-19-2013, 11:26 PM   #8
OTownDaddy
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It has 78,461 miles on it, so the only thing I have left is the 8/80 emissions warranty. They replaced both the cat and the PCM under the 8/80. Never been that lucky before

Got it back and it feels like a different engine. Maybe slightly more responsive? Not sure. One thing for sure that is different is that the MDS is activating a lot more (no light, just listening to the exhaust note and watching the rpms). Again, we'll see.

I'd really like to have it work out as I found out that the harness and the solenoids are the greater part of $850 to replace. Ouch.
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Unread 08-30-2013, 06:43 PM   #9
subysti
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What was the outcome? I've got the same exact errors with an 07 overland with 158,000 miles. just replaced crank position sensor to fix another error but these returned. I've also had the service 4wd error for a year now and dont know why.
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Unread 08-30-2013, 07:30 PM   #10
WieSeL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subysti View Post
What was the outcome? I've got the same exact errors with an 07 overland with 158,000 miles. just replaced crank position sensor to fix another error but these returned. I've also had the service 4wd error for a year now and dont know why.
Did you get the recall performed?
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Unread 08-30-2013, 08:33 PM   #11
subysti
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Recall? What recall?
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Unread 08-30-2013, 10:43 PM   #12
WieSeL
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Originally Posted by subysti View Post
Recall? What recall?
Joke right?

Apparently the N23 recall can help the service 4wd light in some cases
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Unread 08-30-2013, 11:20 PM   #13
Keeslinger31
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Got rid of mine
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