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Unread 05-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #1
BWP1000
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3.0 CRD fuel pump noise

My wife's 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD has had all kinds of problems. The one I can not seem to fix is the in tank lift pump makes all kinds of hissing and serging noise. I have replaced the filter with no change. Replacing the pump makes it go a way for a little while but it came back. If you run the motor with the bleed screw on the filter open the noise goes away tell you close it. There is some flow going back to the tank but not sure if it is right amount. Also I took out and cleaned the the fuel flow solenoid on the front of the high pressure pump. Did not help and I do not know how to test to see if it is working.right.

The jeep seams to run OK but makes wife very frustrated.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Unread 05-21-2013, 06:29 AM   #2
Xmind
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are you talking about the noises with the ignition on, but not running right before you start it and just after you turn the CRD off? If so, I think that is normal...errr..at least common... as it does it on mine as well. I can't hear anything when it is running though.
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Unread 05-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #3
BWP1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmind View Post
are you talking about the noises with the ignition on, but not running right before you start it and just after you turn the CRD off? If so, I think that is normal...errr..at least common... as it does it on mine as well. I can't hear anything when it is running though.

It makes the noise when the motor is running. It will make differents sounds depending on the load the motor is under. All coming from the rear tank. I will see if i can get some audio of it.

Wife called a little while ago and said the check engine light is on. Bad part is i am out of town working. i have never seen a check engine light come on as much tell me got this vehicle.
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Unread 05-22-2013, 10:27 PM   #4
Drewd
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I had same issue with my Grand Cherokee CRD. I replaced the fuel pump in the tank twice with no improvement.

Long story short: Replacing the CP3 pump fixed the problem. The cascade overflow valve on my CP3 pump was not flowing return fuel flow to gas tank sufficiently causing fuel pump in tank to work harder than normal.

Troubleshooting tip:

1. Pull codes, my issue DID NOT trigger a check engine light
2. If codes are something different and unrelated to fuel system (fix it first), pull return fuel line and measure return flow at idle....at idle return flow should be at least 75% of fuel pump's gallon per minute capacity...meaning it should be more than a trickle as very little fuel is consumed at engine idle.
3. Consdier Cp3 pump issue but If you can, replace cascade overflow valve if return fuel flow is too low. If you can't get this part, replace the entire CP3 pump.

Good luck. Please let us know what the check engine light code is as this may be related to fuel system (or it may not ;-) )

If you need ANY fuel system parts please contact me. I have the following spare parts: (a) CP3 pump with new pressure control valve and cascade overflow valve (b) High pressure fuel rail with pressure relief valve
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Unread 05-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #5
Drewd
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So in my testing I did a couple of things.


(1) Immediately replace fuel filter with German made one. If China made or has more than a couple hundred miles on it, replace it. 99.8% of fuel problems can be remedied by a fuel filter replacement. Its relatively easy to do. As a diesel owner, you should always carry a spare filter/tools in your vehicle in case you get a bad batch of fuel in BFE, miles from home. Having owned 4 diesels vehicles, I've only had one batch of bad fuel that clogged my filter twice.

(1a) Bypass CP3 pump and plumb feed line to cp3 pump to return fuel line at cp3 pump using a line coupler (brass) available at any autopart store. Turn "ignition" switch to just prior to start and listen to fuel pump. Fuel pump will run for several seconds as part of start sequence. If you hear no nasty bearing/warbling like sound then you know your fuel pump is not at fault and its a restriction that is forcing it to work too hard against a restriction in your line. If you hear the loud in tank fuel pump sound, don't automatically assume pump is bad...there could be a restriction in your fuel lines. Consider blowing our your feed and fuel return lines with compressed air. Fuel pressure is 60psi from in tank lift pump so use 75-80 psi of compressed air to ensure lines aren't clogged. If lines were restricted and compressed air fixed any obstruction and in line fuel tank still makes noise with feed and returns lines connected in a loop, then and only then consider replacing in tank fuel pump.

If needed: fuel pump in fuel tank replacement procedure.
(a) With no lift available as was with my case, drive vehicle onto wheel ramps for all 4 wheels
(b) Remove rear driveshaft bolts and disconnect driveshaft from rear diff and move driveshaft away towards passenger side so you can now access the bolts holding the fuel tank.
(c) Remove fillter hose clamp and remove tube from fuel tank. You may have to lower tank a bit to fully remove it but at least loosen or remove the clamp.
(d) Don't forget the electrical plug to fuel pump located in back of fuel pump towards rear diff side.
(e) There is a fuel tank strap bolt just under driver side rear wheel sell, don't forget to remove it first
(f) I used a cheap harbor freight tranny jack to lower/raise the fuel tank. You must use the straps on the jack to strap it in so it doesn't fall off the tranny jack.
(g) Remove the bolts (IIRC 3 on each side of tank as you view from under the vehicle)
(g a.) Remove fuel lines (quick disconnect clips for feed and return lines are just in front of the fuel tank)...spend the 6 bucks for quick release clip tool. You can remove the clips with jewler screwdrivers and small pliers but can break then easily.....replacement clips are easily found at auto parts store (advance auto had exact one but listed as another manufacturer, not Jeep)
(h) Slowly lower the fuel tank with the tranny jack and ensure the strap is tightened so tank doesn't slide off.
(i) If your jack stand is small enough and your ramps tall enough, you may be able to slide tank with jack to side from under vehicle...if not, jack vehicle up so you can get enough clearance
(j) using hammer and punch (steel, wooden block etc..) hit twist cap retainer assembly on top of fuel tank holding fuel pump. Hit so it rotates counter clockwise.
(k) remove fuel pump, replace, and reverse procedure to install. With new gasket, it is very hard to get the retaining ring back on. it took two people (my wife and I) using mallets and blunt steel chisels pounding away at 180 degrees apat from each other to rotate retaining ring clockwise enough for it to set properly...this was the hardest part of job.
(L) reinstall back together and fire her up.

(2) There is a fuel return line on the high pressure (CP3) pump. Remove the line at the CP3 and plug it. Attach a clear line (cheap tubing from Home Depot works just fine. Put return line into a fuel container. Start engine and measure fuel return output from cp3 pump for 30 seconds to a minute. If flow is a slow trickle, odds are you have a CP3 pump issue and it can be anything from FCV or COFV but most likely COFV. Almost all of fuel pumped thru fuel filter and into Cp3 is bypassed and returned to the fuel tank. The reason you block of the open line is to ensure that fuel flow from injector bypass is returned (this fuel flow is usually a trickle at idle).

(3) Fuel rail pressure relief valve problems usually indicated by check engine light and/or excess fuel return from the line exiting the fuel rail...very little if any fuel should be returned via the valve on the fuel rail. The engine/ECU does a great job metering just the correct amount of fuel/pressure via the FCV on the CP3 to the fuel rail.

(4) If you continue driving, you will eventually damage the fuel pump in tank. If you must drive, keep do not allow fuel level or get lower than 1/2 and I always kept mine higher so fuel pump that was working so hard against restriction was not overheating.
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Unread 05-23-2013, 06:24 PM   #6
Drewd
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This is what it looks like. Only a small bit of it sticks out of the pump, everything left of the gasket is in the pump itself. I'll have to take a peak and see where it is located and if it can be removed with pump on engine. It took me quite a bit of torque to loosen it. I don't see any benefit to remove and clean it unless you have issues. I'm 99% sure my COFV failure was due to crud/manufacturing residue in a China made fuel filter. A fuel filter should have caught everything going to it.
cov.gif  
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Unread 05-25-2013, 12:20 AM   #7
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How about some feedback BWP???
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Unread 05-26-2013, 05:09 PM   #8
BWP1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewd View Post
How about some feedback BWP???
For some reason I did not get a notification tell today of your posts. Which by the way looks like a lot of good info. I have not had a chance to work on the jeep since getting back in town. I hope to get a chance tomorrow I will let you now what I find. Thanks
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Unread 05-27-2013, 08:46 PM   #9
BWP1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewd View Post
This is what it looks like. Only a small bit of it sticks out of the pump, everything left of the gasket is in the pump itself. I'll have to take a peak and see where it is located and if it can be removed with pump on engine. It took me quite a bit of torque to loosen it. I don't see any benefit to remove and clean it unless you have issues. I'm 99% sure my COFV failure was due to crud/manufacturing residue in a China made fuel filter. A fuel filter should have caught everything going to it.
I was not able to find this. what is it called?
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Unread 05-27-2013, 09:10 PM   #10
BWP1000
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The check engine light was P0544 (Exhaust gas temp sensor) I cleared it and it did not come back on. Now the servise 4wd system is coming on does not show up on the code reader.

I took some video of the noise and the flow on the return after the CP3 pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0X9...e_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODW...e_gdata_player

The filter that I put in is from NAPA not sure where they are made. The one I took out when the problem started was made in Austria it was what the dealer put in.
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Unread 05-29-2013, 06:47 AM   #11
Drewd
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BWP,
Your video confirms that your issue is identical to my issue. I'm the first person on this forum that had this problem and with no help was able to resolve it successfully and get the vehicle back on the road.

Don't drive your vehicle or you could permamently damage your fuel pump and possibly damage your CP3 pump too if COFV is not bypassing and/or directing fuel flow correctly in CP3. It takes about 20-30 minutes to remove the CP3 pump and another 2 minutes to remove the COFV. Replace the COFV valve or the CP3 pump and your issue will be solved.

I cannot recommend the diesel shop that got me my COFV due to an agreement I had with the company. I had poor customer service, was overcharged for shipping ($70 shipping for a part the size of my thumb) and did not receive any resolution from the company until I threatened to post in every diesel forum my poor experience. The company did refund some of the overcharges and I agreed not to mention my experiences with them by name. I cannot in good conscience recommend them to you or anyone else.
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Unread 05-29-2013, 09:16 AM   #12
jediknight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewd View Post
BWP,
Your video confirms that your issue is identical to my issue. I'm the first person on this forum that had this problem and with no help was able to resolve it successfully and get the vehicle back on the road.

Don't drive your vehicle or you could permamently damage your fuel pump and possibly damage your CP3 pump too if COFV is not bypassing and/or directing fuel flow correctly in CP3. It takes about 20-30 minutes to remove the CP3 pump and another 2 minutes to remove the COFV. Replace the COFV valve or the CP3 pump and your issue will be solved.

I cannot recommend the diesel shop that got me my COFV due to an agreement I had with the company. I had poor customer service, was overcharged for shipping ($70 shipping for a part the size of my thumb) and did not receive any resolution from the company until I threatened to post in every diesel forum my poor experience. The company did refund some of the overcharges and I agreed not to mention my experiences with them by name. I cannot in good conscience recommend them to you or anyone else.
Are you telling us that you can not buy the valve separetly and you have to change the high pressure pump in order to change the quantity control valve ?? I think that pump cost about 1000 $
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Unread 05-29-2013, 09:02 PM   #13
Drewd
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Perform the steps I followed to rule out obstruction in fuel feed and return lines. Do return line fuel flow check from CP3 pump and go from there.
My cascade over flow valve was bad not a quantity control valve (fuel quantity control valve is different than a cascade overflow valve). if you determine it is a COFV then you'll need to source it. if you can't source it, then you'll need to buy a CP3 (new or used) to replace yours.

I cannot recommend the vendor I used who sourced my COFV. His late shipment, poor communication, overcharging for delivery, poor customer response, no delivery/shipping confirmation forced me to buy a used CP3 pump because I gave up on the vendor's ability to source the part which he did too late.

You may get lucky and find a vendor on Ebay selling a new or used CP3. If you are really lucky, you may find a vendor who can source the COFV.

Good luck.
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Unread 06-01-2013, 12:02 PM   #14
BWP1000
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Well I pulled the pump off and removed the COFV from the bottom of the pump. If I had a stubby 16mm I may have been able to get it out while in the vehicle. I cleaned it up and blow air throw it. It look like there was a little varnish in the hole on the pump. Cleaned it out.

Reinstalled every thing and still no luck. Runs for about 20sec then lift pump starts making noise again.

Drewd
I would be interested in your extra COFV
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Unread 06-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #15
Drewd
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My "new" COFV is installed in my old CP3 pump. I prefer not to remove it and sell it separately. I'm trying to help you out by finding a Bosch distributor who can source the part for you. Most of the diesel shops I googled and contacted via email ignored my querier or told me they couldn't help.

COFV failure is not uncommon on other diesels and typically can't be "cleaned" out and replacement from a reputable dealer for other brands (Cummins, Ford, Chevy) is usually less than $50.00 plus shipping. My COFV when, all said and done, was 3 times that.

I can sell you a CP3 pump w/ 1150 miles on it or a CP3 pump with 61,000 miles on it that has a new COFV and a new FCV. Both tested and guranteed to work for you.
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