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Unread 11-09-2012, 03:00 PM   #31
Walt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicem2 View Post
........ As far as the plugs go not sure which route to take. I'm trying to figure out if the aftermarket champion 570's are the same as the mopar plugs. The only thing different on the plugs is that the aftermarket plug says RE14MCC4 and the Mopar (champion plug) has a Sp in front SPRE14MCC4. If there is no difference I can get the aftermarket plugs for $1.99 at autozone. But, if there is a difference I would rather spend over double for the other plug. This is so frustrating..... I guess I should just get the Mopar pluigs to be sure.
I did some measurements (resistance, inductance, and capacitiance) on the MOPAR SPRE14MCC4 plugs, Champion 570, and Champion 3570 plugs and posted them in the '07 HEMI thread. Interesting that the last set of plugs from dealer was not labeled with MOPAR number, only Champion 570. For one 15K miles period, my HEMI had had both MOPAR and Champion 570's with no stalling issues. I had MOPAR on the passenger side and Champion on the driver's side, with no difference in mpg's, performance, etc. Since I put them both in, I knew that gap and torque were properly set. Every coil was measured for in-spec primary resistance.

You will likely see a difference in electrode condition between MDS and non-MDS cylinder plugs. On mine, the non-MDS plugs are darker; MDS plugs are leaner.

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Unread 11-09-2012, 08:39 PM   #32
juicem2
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Walt, I saw the spark plug measurements in the other thread. However, I didn't know what the heck I was looking at. I just ordered the SPRE14MCC4 plugs. A Chrysler dealer was selling them brand new for 49.95 for all 16 plus free shipping.They have more if anyone needs the plugs. Just Google SPRE14MCC4 and you will see the Ebay link. Thanks for the reply. This is getting exhausting. I can't believe it is so complicated to solve this. Thanks again!

Last edited by juicem2; 11-09-2012 at 09:46 PM..
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Unread 11-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #33
Walt
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Originally Posted by juicem2 View Post
....This is getting exhausting. I can't believe it is so complicated to solve this. Thanks again!
If it's not too much trouble, can you post your VIN serial no. and build date? (on driver's door frame).

I'm wondering if there is a correlation between assembly date and problem as there would be a consistent supplier of wiring, coils, etc. Also wondering if it ties to the '07 WK HEMI stalling problem. For instance if all of the '07's are late model year builds and all of the '08's are early model year builds, that is something to work with. I feel that Jeep ought to be doing their homework on this, but it will probably revert to the owners to point out our findings.

Thanks in advance.
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Unread 11-11-2012, 09:41 AM   #34
juicem2
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Walt, It is no trouble at all. The build date of the Jeep was 8/07. The vin number is 1J8HR58248C118552. You may be on to something with this. I wonder if there is any way we can get Jeep involved in this. I am assuming that my Jeep is a early 08 since it was built in August of 07. I have already replaced the crankshaft position sensor,camshaft position sensor, and ASD realay. The plugs are on the way. I was thinking about changing the egr valve next but, I don't want to keep replacing parts that don't need replacing. I don' want to get rid of the Jeep either. I absolutely love it except for the stalling issues.
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Unread 11-11-2012, 03:47 PM   #35
Walt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicem2 View Post
.....The build date of the Jeep was 8/07. The vin number is 1J8HR58248C118552. You may be on to something with this. I wonder if there is any way we can get Jeep involved in this. I am assuming that my Jeep is a early 08 since it was built in August of 07. I have already replaced the crankshaft position sensor,camshaft position sensor, and ASD relay. The plugs are on the way. I was thinking about changing the egr valve next but, I don't want to keep replacing parts that don't need replacing. I don' want to get rid of the Jeep either. I absolutely love it except for the stalling issues.
Hmmmmm..... Mine is C133368 with mfg date of 9/07. Lots of other issues, but no stalling. My theory is that whatever is the root cause (e.g., a tight crankshaft position sensor wire that momentarily disconnects when the engine rocks on its mounts upon unloading) runs from mid-'07 model year to very early '08 model year.

I agree. Jeep should be doing this investigation as they have the build database and can cross-check against owner- & dealer-reported stalling problems for '07 & early '08 model year HEMI's. IMHO, this situation borders on a safety issue and I'm surprised that the NTSB has not taken a more active interest. At least 1 of the '07 owners has reported it to them....maybe every owner with the stalling issue should report it to the NTSB independently.

Have not replaced the knock sensors, ASD relay, crankshaft position sensor, or camshaft position sensor. DashDAQ XL does not give any indication that any of these are a problem. All ignition coils test within normal limits (primary resistance). Throttle body cleaned every 25-30K miles.

Have replaced the MAP sensor, EGR valve, PCV valve, plugs (every 30K miles), xmission fluid & filters, cylinder heads, manifolds, and Y-pipe & catalytic converters. Numerous exhaust leaks. PCM has been flashed several times with TSB upgrades.

Lots of data...no substantive diagnosis yet. Any other early '08 model year owners (Aug '07 build or earlier) with stalling problems?
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Unread 11-11-2012, 05:28 PM   #36
2008WK_Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Hmmmmm..... Mine is C133368 with mfg date of 9/07. Lots of other issues, but no stalling. My theory is that whatever is the root cause (e.g., a tight crankshaft position sensor wire that momentarily disconnects when the engine rocks on its mounts upon unloading) runs from mid-'07 model year to very early '08 model year.

I agree. Jeep should be doing this investigation as they have the build database and can cross-check against owner- & dealer-reported stalling problems for '07 & early '08 model year HEMI's. IMHO, this situation borders on a safety issue and I'm surprised that the NTSB has not taken a more active interest. At least 1 of the '07 owners has reported it to them....maybe every owner with the stalling issue should report it to the NTSB independently.

Have not replaced the knock sensors, ASD relay, crankshaft position sensor, or camshaft position sensor. DashDAQ XL does not give any indication that any of these are a problem. All ignition coils test within normal limits (primary resistance). Throttle body cleaned every 25-30K miles.

Have replaced the MAP sensor, EGR valve, PCV valve, plugs (every 30K miles), xmission fluid & filters, cylinder heads, manifolds, and Y-pipe & catalytic converters. Numerous exhaust leaks. PCM has been flashed several times with TSB upgrades.

Lots of data...no substantive diagnosis yet. Any other early '08 model year owners (Aug '07 build or earlier) with stalling problems?
Mine stalled yesterday, and has been lately hesitating on acceleration. While cruising using cruise control, on a flat highway, the MDS constantly kicks in and out. I feel a slight jerk in the powertrain. I got scared yesterday as all power was lost, but the radio was still playing. No power steering, even power brakes started feeling sluggish. Thankfully I was on the right lane and could barely turn the wheel, but went on the side. I was able to restart fine. I did not notice if I went full key off to start, or else...

I have a Canadian 2008 Grand cherokee overland with 5.7L HEMI. The MDH is 103100.

What made me start looking closer, was the fact that in the last 6 months, my mileage was dropping. With no driving behaviour changes, I went from 15 MPG to now barely 10. Wheel alignment, tire pressure, spark plug replacement, oil change, air filter..it has all been done and verified. yet, mileage sucks. That along with the above symptoms have me puzzled. I can't seem to shake the idea they are linked, and not just a coincidence.

Spark plugs were replaced recently with Autolite XP 5263. The application is supposed to be a "better" solution than Champion 570 and they not only meet, but exceed the specs. I am now wondering if this is the issue, or part of it. Anyone went with Autolite?

Oh, and would re-programming the ECU with a diablo sport have any impact, if it is linked with a spark plugs?
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Unread 11-11-2012, 05:53 PM   #37
Walt
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Originally Posted by 2008WK_Canuck View Post
Mine stalled yesterday, and has been lately hesitating on acceleration. While cruising using cruise control, on a flat highway, the MDS constantly kicks in and out. I feel a slight jerk in the powertrain. I got scared yesterday as all power was lost, but the radio was still playing. No power steering, even power brakes started feeling sluggish. Thankfully I was on the right lane and could barely turn the wheel, but went on the side. I was able to restart fine. I did not notice if I went full key off to start, or else...

I have a Canadian 2008 Grand cherokee overland with 5.7L HEMI. The MDH is 103100.

What made me start looking closer, was the fact that in the last 6 months, my mileage was dropping. With no driving behaviour changes, I went from 15 MPG to now barely 10. Wheel alignment, tire pressure, spark plug replacement, oil change, air filter..it has all been done and verified. yet, mileage sucks. That along with the above symptoms have me puzzled. I can't seem to shake the idea they are linked, and not just a coincidence.

Spark plugs were replaced recently with Autolite XP 5263. The application is supposed to be a "better" solution than Champion 570 and they not only meet, but exceed the specs. I am now wondering if this is the issue, or part of it. Anyone went with Autolite?

Oh, and would re-programming the ECU with a diablo sport have any impact, if it is linked with a spark plugs?
No experience with other brands/models of spark plugs. When I joined JF, the conventional wisdom from other owners was use only copper core plugs (OEM or Champion 570's). I've stayed on that regimen. Specified plug gap for the '08's is 0.043". Other gaps are published for other MY's (from 0.040-0.045"). My '08 WK owner's manual and the '08 WK FSM agree on 0.043". You can check your plugs to see what they are set at. If you elect to change, verify the 0.043" gap before installing.

No experience with Diablosport or tuning. DashDAQ XL just displays PID's and displays / clears DTC's.

Recommend you look at your EGR valve and MAP sensor. My EGR valve failed about 40-45K miles. MAP sensor diaphragm was covered in oily crud from the PVC discharge. Squirrely MDS performance probably stems from the fact that the engine is not meeting all of the permissives. One is that the load is <95% of theoretical engine capability. I also see this on-off trend as the oil approaches its change point (say ~4,500 miles -or- 7,200 km in your parlance).
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Unread 11-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #38
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Add me to early build date - 10/07.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 08:07 AM   #39
juicem2
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Everyone filing complaints with the NTSB is a good idea. Oh I forgot to mention about a year and a half ago I brought my Jeep to the dealer to check out the stalling. They couldn't find anything but recommended rerouting 2 wires or something to that affect. I have to find the receipt to make sure.It was going to be a cost of almost $400 and they said they can't guarantee that it was going to fix the problem. So, I didn't have it done. That is a lot of money on a maybe.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 06:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
No experience with other brands/models of spark plugs. When I joined JF, the conventional wisdom from other owners was use only copper core plugs (OEM or Champion 570's). I've stayed on that regimen. Specified plug gap for the '08's is 0.043". Other gaps are published for other MY's (from 0.040-0.045"). My '08 WK owner's manual and the '08 WK FSM agree on 0.043". You can check your plugs to see what they are set at. If you elect to change, verify the 0.043" gap before installing.

No experience with Diablosport or tuning. DashDAQ XL just displays PID's and displays / clears DTC's.

Recommend you look at your EGR valve and MAP sensor. My EGR valve failed about 40-45K miles. MAP sensor diaphragm was covered in oily crud from the PVC discharge. Squirrely MDS performance probably stems from the fact that the engine is not meeting all of the permissives. One is that the load is <95% of theoretical engine capability. I also see this on-off trend as the oil approaches its change point (say ~4,500 miles -or- 7,200 km in your parlance).
Thanks Walt, will have them check that tomorrow. As for the stalls, I'll report back on my findings (or theirs). Love my WK otherwise....

For the MDS, cruise control is roughly at 100 Km/h (or 58mph I guess). That should be waaay below 95%.
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Unread 11-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #41
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Stalled again tonight. Cruising along at 70 mph and it just cut out. I felt like a thud when it stalled. I tried to start it neutral twice but it would start and cut right out. I had to pull off to the side of the express way take the key out and than put the key in and it started and was without incident the rest of the way.

Update: It threw code P0688 again so it has two codes now. P0688 and P0884. I checked the receipt from when I brought it the dealer. It was August 2011. The recommended repair was to run 2 new wires to the circuit. I don't know what 2 wires and to what circuit. It also said all wires checked out okay. It was a recommended repair and not guaranteed to fix the problem. So, that is why I didn't have or done. I stopped by the dealer today to see if they had any more info in there system but the service adviser said everything would have been transferred to my receipt. Also, the tech that worked on my Jeep moved to Nebraska (not that he would have remembered).

Last edited by juicem2; 11-15-2012 at 08:41 AM..
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Unread 11-16-2012, 10:29 AM   #42
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Here's an update with my '08 5.7L. I went through all of October with no stalling until we got one warm day in November last week (65F/18C) and I was towing a trailer with a CanAm 4x4 on it. I stalled 3 times in 3 hours going 60-70mph and seemed to partial stall a few times and recovered. Since the weather cooled off, its been fine again. Is there a correlation between warmer weather and towing? Probably not. Like you said juicem2, no clear cut answer. I pray no one gets hurt as a result of this problem. Im worried to let my wife borrow my car because she wouldnt know what to do.
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Unread 11-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #43
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My Date of Manufacturer is 9-07 (2008 GC Overland 5.7) Bought in NJ, driven in Ontario Canada.
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Unread 11-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicem2 View Post
Stalled again tonight. Cruising along at 70 mph and it just cut out. I felt like a thud when it stalled. I tried to start it neutral twice but it would start and cut right out. I had to pull off to the side of the express way take the key out and than put the key in and it started and was without incident the rest of the way.

Update: It threw code P0688 again so it has two codes now. P0688 and P0884. I checked the receipt from when I brought it the dealer. It was August 2011. The recommended repair was to run 2 new wires to the circuit. I don't know what 2 wires and to what circuit. It also said all wires checked out okay. It was a recommended repair and not guaranteed to fix the problem. So, that is why I didn't have or done. I stopped by the dealer today to see if they had any more info in there system but the service adviser said everything would have been transferred to my receipt. Also, the tech that worked on my Jeep moved to Nebraska (not that he would have remembered).
Your codes make sense . p0884 is just power up at speed which is what it did when you tried to start it while it was moving .
p0688 is Auto shutdown relay sense low . They were probably going to run new wires from the pcm connector to the asd relay .You could try swapping or changing the relay out .heres the discriptor from the service manual .
P0688-AUTO SHUTDOWN RELAY SENSE CIRCUIT LOW (CONTINUED)
For the Engine circuit diagram (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - SCHEMATICS AND DIAGRAMS).
² When Monitored:
With ignition key on. Battery voltage greater than 10 volts.

² Set Condition:
No voltage sensed at the PCM when the ASD relay is energized. One Trip Fault. Three good trips to turn off
the MIL.

Possible Causes
(A924) FUSED B+ CIRCUITS
(K342) ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT OPEN
ASD RELAY
PCM
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Unread 11-18-2012, 03:39 PM   #45
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I changed the asd relay about a month ago. I went to the dealer and bought a new one.The pcm to asd relay make sense for the wires they were going to run. The P0884 code came a few weeks ago when I was merging on to the hwy. I floored the truck and it fell flat on its face. I thought the truck stalled. But it seemed to start back up or didn't stall all the way. That also makes sense power back up. The P0688 code happened last week when it stalled on the hwy. These codes I have gotten before. This has been a problem for over a year and a half.
Today, I swapped out the plugs with new champion plugs. I gapped them at .043, used anit-seize compound on the threads, and dielectric grease. I cleaned the battery posts and terminals, put the felt pads undeer the terminals, and coated the posts and terminals with vaseline. I changed the pcv valve. I also took the throttle body off cleaned it and cleaned in the upper intake as far as I can reach.It is running like a champ right now and seems to have a lot more power.
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