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Unread 03-22-2010, 03:30 PM   #46
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I'm pretty much maxed out here on my 4.5" RE superflex...not sure what exactly is limiting me, either the shocks or my currie antirock.



Checking my bumpstops...all good


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Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 04:32 PM   #47
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I just did a quick mental thought of what the bill on that build will be.. I vote Imped TJ of the Month January 2040!!! lol jk yeah and I've even gone over to the fab forum and started reading through the basics. I want to buy a cheap welder I can use at home. i've done welding in shops in the past.. Nothing professional gas and stick welding.. Going to start off by playing around with roll cages.

But really for the price.. it sounds like these short arms will out do or at least keep pace with sub 3k dollar long arm set ups. Assuming good progressive spring rate, solid johnny or flex type joints and the right track bar mounts etc.

What do you think the difference between 2 short arm set ups? Is the biggest difference in the control arms or in the track bar and shocks?
Haha, don't count on it being that far off. More like 2012 or 2013. I just need to have the funds and a second vehicle. Now onto differentiating short arm setups--it's hard to narrow down just one, but I'll say the control arm ends is the first step. Rubber bushings allow a small range of motion before binding occurs. Poly is much worse. Switching to a joint on even one end of the arm, like a JJ, allows that end about 30 degrees in any direction but binding can still occur once the frame and axle want to start rotating in different directions. Going to a joint on both ends allows the frame and axle to freely contort and flow with the terrain, keeping the tires on the ground. All you're doing in a suspension system is tracking down and eliminating bottle necks. Once you've tackled the control arms, your next bottle neck will probably be the front track bar. So, put a joint on the frame end of that and there you go. After that, shock down travel becomes the issue. Once you've freed that up, unloading/unseating the coil becomes an issue so limit straps are needed. In the rear, the same thing applies. Ditching the track bar is relatively easy to do and takes care of the axle drooping down and to the side problem. It also frees up the binding that can occur due to the track bar. I'm at the point where I need longer shocks and limit straps on both ends. I'll be doing that one of these days in the near future. Ford shock towers up front with 12-14" travel shocks (probably Bilsteins) and limit straps on both sides. In the rear I'll also go with Ford shock towers to outboard 12-14" travel Bilsteins and limit straps. I'd like to get some higher clearance lower CA mounts for the frame and axle, as well. I don't see any improvement on a short arm setup after that.

Apex--looking good man. I'm guessing the shocks are stopping you there.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 04:55 PM   #48
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Yeah as far as mortal builds Apex I dont' know enough to say what's limiting you but I do know that something hasto keep the axle underneath you lol that's doing work right there.

Imped when you say it's relatively easy to get rid of the track bar do you mean switching to a triangulated 4 link set up?

right now I'm trying to get up 3-4"s with or without a body lift for inexpensive but still improve trail ability.. I was/ am considering Rough Country's 3.75 Kit which includes a body lift. With that setup I could get the lift wheels and tires for 1700 and no need for SYE and Driveshaft.Then later down the line getting the Currie johnny joints.

Or RE superflex kit I can get for 1400 but that includes a RE SYE and Drive line..Which would allow me to switch over to Currie or Rockman at a later date.. it would just be much harder to get the rims and tires at the same time. Just make rims and tires a lot tougher to get right now but then the question begs at that point am I starting off with a better setup? Too many options imho so I'm not going to make a decision till my accounts are full and ready

Keep up with the Pics you guys are selling lifts right now lol Looking good.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:08 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
Apex--looking good man. I'm guessing the shocks are stopping you there.
Thanks, guess I need to do a taller shock mount in the front now too

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocTJ View Post
Yeah as far as mortal builds Apex I dont' know enough to say what's limiting you but I do know that something hasto keep the axle underneath you lol that's doing work right there.

Imped when you say it's relatively easy to get rid of the track bar do you mean switching to a triangulated 4 link set up?

right now I'm trying to get up 3-4"s with or without a body lift for inexpensive but still improve trail ability.. I was/ am considering Rough Country's 3.75 Kit which includes a body lift. With that setup I could get the lift wheels and tires for 1700 and no need for SYE and Driveshaft.Then later down the line getting the Currie johnny joints.

Or RE superflex kit I can get for 1400 but that includes a RE SYE and Drive line..Which would allow me to switch over to Currie or Rockman at a later date.. it would just be much harder to get the rims and tires at the same time. Just make rims and tires a lot tougher to get right now but then the question begs at that point am I starting off with a better setup? Too many options imho so I'm not going to make a decision till my accounts are full and ready

Keep up with the Pics you guys are selling lifts right now lol Looking good.
If it is ANY help at all. I am very happy with my RE lift, but I do sort of want to try out clayton or currie arms with JJ at both ends to see what happens. I am very happy with my short arm lift to this point, but like Imped said...that 10% of obstacles makes me want a well engineered LA kit.

If you do go with the RE kit, get the 4.5" kit with 3.5" springs. The 4.5" kit is a much more complete kit than the 3.5" is. And also, the RE springs are made for a HEAVY Jeep. They will net you much more lift than advertised, then they will settle a little bit. This will leave you tinkering with your pinion angle a few times over the course of a year or so.

I see a lot of people are happy with currie/clayton lifts and a lot of people are swapping for progressive rate springs. Imped gives good advice and knows his stuff, I try to read what the advice he gives other people a few times and learn from it.


On another note...as far as $$$ goes. Spend more on a quality lift now and be happier for longer. You could always track down some used 33" tires anyday for cheap. That is how I am moving up to 35"s. So far I have peiced my tires together 1,2,1 at a time. Now I only need one to have a set of 5
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Quote:
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Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ocTJ View Post
Yeah as far as mortal builds Apex I dont' know enough to say what's limiting you but I do know that something hasto keep the axle underneath you lol that's doing work right there.

Imped when you say it's relatively easy to get rid of the track bar do you mean switching to a triangulated 4 link set up?

right now I'm trying to get up 3-4"s with or without a body lift for inexpensive but still improve trail ability.. I was/ am considering Rough Country's 3.75 Kit which includes a body lift. With that setup I could get the lift wheels and tires for 1700 and no need for SYE and Driveshaft.Then later down the line getting the Currie johnny joints.

Or RE superflex kit I can get for 1400 but that includes a RE SYE and Drive line..Which would allow me to switch over to Currie or Rockman at a later date.. it would just be much harder to get the rims and tires at the same time. Just make rims and tires a lot tougher to get right now but then the question begs at that point am I starting off with a better setup? Too many options imho so I'm not going to make a decision till my accounts are full and ready

Keep up with the Pics you guys are selling lifts right now lol Looking good.
Some pics of the rear setup:






Some pictures of the front when I was droop testing. See the shock mount limiting the lower control arm from drooping anymore? I'm going to notch that to give the arm some more room. That's a limit.


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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:47 PM   #51
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I have that same GM Performance Parts jack...My buddy loosened the screw too much and lost half the fluid...it is sooo slow now. I gotta fix that.


So what is the deal with that rear set-up? It is still short arm isn't it? I'm so lost on that right now...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bddisi View Post
Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:48 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocTJ View Post
Yeah as far as mortal builds Apex I dont' know enough to say what's limiting you but I do know that something hasto keep the axle underneath you lol that's doing work right there.

Imped when you say it's relatively easy to get rid of the track bar do you mean switching to a triangulated 4 link set up?

right now I'm trying to get up 3-4"s with or without a body lift for inexpensive but still improve trail ability.. I was/ am considering Rough Country's 3.75 Kit which includes a body lift. With that setup I could get the lift wheels and tires for 1700 and no need for SYE and Driveshaft.Then later down the line getting the Currie johnny joints.

Or RE superflex kit I can get for 1400 but that includes a RE SYE and Drive line..Which would allow me to switch over to Currie or Rockman at a later date.. it would just be much harder to get the rims and tires at the same time. Just make rims and tires a lot tougher to get right now but then the question begs at that point am I starting off with a better setup? Too many options imho so I'm not going to make a decision till my accounts are full and ready

Keep up with the Pics you guys are selling lifts right now lol Looking good.
If you want to stick with short arms for a while, keep the suspension lift low. The higher you go on short arms, the less potential you have. I'd recommend staying below 3". The RC springs and shocks should serve you well if you're wanting to save some cash and get a nicely performing rig. For a longer term setup, I'd recommend 3" AEV coils and Bilstein shocks, but that will cost you twice as much. The 1.25" body lift and 1" MML are both great things to do, as well. You should have plenty of room for 33's and 35's and should have no vibes. I've been happy with the RC springs and shocks for a long time now. The only time I'm not a fan of them is when my hard top is on. The extra weight is a little much for the soft springs. It's a great setup for a lighter jeep with a soft top, though.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Jeep02Apex View Post
I have that same GM Performance Parts jack...My buddy loosened the screw too much and lost half the fluid...it is sooo slow now. I gotta fix that.


So what is the deal with that rear set-up? It is still short arm isn't it? I'm so lost on that right now...
Yes, still short arms, just no track bar. Currie lowers, Rock Krawler triangulated uppers, and no track bar. The rear axle is obviously trussed and that's where the upper arms bolt to the axle. I love the setup. It droops effortlessly with no bind points. Another great thing about the setup is that the pinion angle remains about the same through the entire suspension cycle so u joint binding is not an issue until really extreme droopage is reached.

You can see the uppers and lowers in this picture:
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Unread 03-22-2010, 05:55 PM   #54
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If you don't mind me asking, what was you cost for the RK trianulated uppers? I can't weld, but I'd love to ditch my trackbar.
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Quote:
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Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 06:01 PM   #55
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I believe you can pick it up for around $400 if you talk to some RK dealers. You get the truss, uppers, and frame reinforcement brackets. Get someone to help you weld it and it should only take you a couple hours from start to finish. If you end up going that route, let me know and I'll give you a couple tips.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 06:03 PM   #56
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I believe you can pick it up for around $400 if you talk to some RK dealers. You get the truss, uppers, and frame reinforcement brackets. Get someone to help you weld it and it should only take you a couple hours from start to finish. If you end up going that route, let me know and I'll give you a couple tips.
Won't be any time soon since I just dropped some coin on the metalcloak fenders. But if and when it happens, you'll be hearing from me.
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Quote:
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Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 06:51 PM   #57
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apex, if you have the RE standard trackbar - thats whats limiting your flex - i have the same one.

after that though the limit is the shock brackets that imped is talking aboot
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Unread 03-22-2010, 07:20 PM   #58
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Here's an old picture I've always liked. This is when I was on 31's, no body lift, just the RC 2.5. Stock arms and track bars.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 07:25 PM   #59
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apex, if you have the RE standard trackbar - thats whats limiting your flex - i have the same one.

after that though the limit is the shock brackets that imped is talking aboot
boo that! Guess at some point I'll have to upgrade. That will all have to wait, as running 35" tires as safely as possible is the priority right now.

In a few weeks I'm going to find out all my weak links...
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Quote:
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Finesse in crawling looks way cooler than momentum.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 07:47 PM   #60
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Here's an old picture I've always liked. This is when I was on 31's, no body lift, just the RC 2.5. Stock arms and track bars.
See that's the kind of photography I WANT to be doing...Gotta love over priced Hobbies...


Ok So let's pretend...pretend were making a build sheet..your RK triangulated rear uppers...RC 3.75" lift I glanced at AEV stuff soon as I saw the prices I knew I was out of my league... The gist is I want the best performance for about 2000 dollars 2500 TOPS

4 33" **** Cepek crushers and/or GY Wrangler kevlars (still running stock rims but I can get some steel rims for like 250 bucks for a set.) so that's roughly 1,000 for rims and tires leaves me 1,000 to 1500 for lift..

PS For stock or stock man that's pretty dam# good flex for those boxy Control arms..
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