[MCDavis]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

Remember, before the Hummer brand was created and started competing with Jeep, Jeeps had tiny tires, weak axles, low ground clearance, no skids, and not even recovery hooks. They weren't offroad vehicles and Chrysler knew it. That's how "Jeeps are built not bought" came about... For decades you couldn't buy any Jeep with more ground clearance than a Dodge Caravan. Hummer embarassed Jeep into building offroad vehicles.

So, CJ's weren't offroad vehicles? Are you serious?

[corndogduff]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

Remember, before the Hummer brand was created and started competing with Jeep, Jeeps had tiny tires, weak axles, low ground clearance, no skids, and not even recovery hooks. They weren't offroad vehicles and Chrysler knew it. That's how "Jeeps are built not bought" came about... For decades you couldn't buy any Jeep with more ground clearance than a Dodge Caravan. Hummer embarassed Jeep into building offroad vehicles.

Are you actually serious in this post? If so, you are an idiot.

The original jeep was DESIGNED for nothing but off road use, and the CJ5 had almost zero changes from that design. The cj7 was the first major redesign and it was done almost 10 full years before the hummer came out and considering AMC (the guys who built jeep before chrysler) made the original hummer i dont think anyone was embarrassed into anything.


get your facts straight AND gtfo.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by duffers

Are you actually serious in this post? If so, you are an idiot.

The original jeep was DESIGNED for nothing but off road use, and the CJ5 had almost zero changes from that design. The cj7 was the first major redesign and it was done almost 10 full years before the hummer came out and considering AMC (the guys who built jeep before chrysler) made the original hummer i dont think anyone was embarrassed into anything.


get your facts straight AND gtfo.

When was the last time they sold a CJ? I said for decades you couldn't buy a truly offroad capable stock Jeep. As ungainly as the H2 was, the best thing Jeep had was a TJ with ground clearance akin to a minivan, 28" tires, a LP front axle, mostly Dana 35s, and no standard skid plates, and AFAIK no tow hooks.

You know what symbolizes what was wrong with Jeep? My Miata came with recovery hooks, yet I had to install them on my XJ!! Why? Because Chryser was run by beancounters, not the car enthusiasts. They crippled otherwise well engineered vehicles for the same of saving a few beans, because they knew their intended purpose was mallcrawling.


AMC didn't make the original HMMWV, it was always AM General.

[RARECJ8]

Scrambler saves H1 Alpha...

[tedder19]

Originally Posted by xantasm

Looks like somebody forgot to explain to that guy how a fording kit actually works

HMMWV's took on the job when the military retired the Jeep from its line. A Jeep saved my father and my grandfather's life and countless others. Jeep Pioneered the way through three major wars for HMMWV to take its place. Both deserve a salute, neither deserve to be turned into the bronze thing from Dubai below. I'd rather have a Jeep.

I respect that, but you do realize that's not a Jeep in the picture, right?

Look at the grill, turned sideways, that's the biggest way to tell the difference.

[xantasm]

Originally Posted by tedder19

I respect that, but you do realize that's not a Jeep in the picture, right?

Look at the grill, turned sideways, that's the biggest way to tell the difference.

I just picked that one to illustrate the point, I wasnt trying to get technical.

[442Wrangler]

do you honestly think a TJ isnt off roadable from the factory? your stupid...what's the deal with the gas tank skid plate and tranny skid plate then? also ive seen plenty of stock jeeps do things i dont think stock hummers would dream of...

[tedder19]

Originally Posted by xantasm

I just picked that one to illustrate the point, I wasnt trying to get technical.

My fault, but I do believe in what you said for sure.

[corndogduff]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

When was the last time they sold a CJ? I said for decades you couldn't buy a truly offroad capable stock Jeep. As ungainly as the H2 was, the best thing Jeep had was a TJ with ground clearance akin to a minivan, 28" tires, a LP front axle, mostly Dana 35s, and no standard skid plates, and AFAIK no tow hooks.

You know what symbolizes what was wrong with Jeep? My Miata came with recovery hooks, yet I had to install them on my XJ!! Why? Because Chryser was run by beancounters, not the car enthusiasts. They crippled otherwise well engineered vehicles for the same of saving a few beans, because they knew their intended purpose was mallcrawling.


AMC didn't make the original HMMWV, it was always AM General.

AMC IS AM General, dip****.

Know what, you are an uninformed moron and i almost feel bad e-fighting with you because it is like fighting Helen Keller if she was also autistic. There are so many flaws in that last statement you wrote that I could type a whole novel about what a moron you are and still have room for a second volume.

[xantasm]

Easy there guys, your argument about AMC and AM General isnt right on either side. AMC never made a HMMWV because AM General was bought out in 1983 by LTV and AMC was disolved in 1988 and most of its staff was absorbed by Chrysler. AM general has been a completely seperate company for close to thirty years now. So AM General is not AMC, but it used to be a subsiduary of AMC.

http://www.amgeneral.com/corporate/history.php

"In 1983, the LTV Corporation bought AM General from American Motors Corporation and established it as a wholly owned subsidiary of the LTV Aerospace and Defense Company.

In 1984, the AM General headquarters moved from the American Motors AMTEK Building to Livonia, Mich. and two years later to South Bend, Ind. where the primary manufacturing operations were located."

[incagoldjeep]

can we see some more jeep rescuing hummers

[trw]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

When was the last time they sold a CJ? I said for decades you couldn't buy a truly offroad capable stock Jeep. As ungainly as the H2 was, the best thing Jeep had was a TJ with ground clearance akin to a minivan, 28" tires, a LP front axle, mostly Dana 35s, and no standard skid plates, and AFAIK no tow hooks.

no standard skid plates? Maybe you should look under a TJ once in a while, and notice the big *** transfercase skid plate, the big *** gas tank skidplate, and hell, my YJ even has little skid plates for the fuel filter on the frame rail and vacuum disconnect.

tow hooks were an option on all Wranglers, I put some on mine for $10, and my mother's 07 Liberty has them too......

[callsigncowboy]

yea i drive a tj...definalty has gigantic skid plates...and its stock...and it does...intersting things, like slog through axel deep mud. or go up really steep hills, then back down the other side..oh and who when was the last time you took the doors and the top off a hummer in under 10min??

[winkosmosis]

How many TJs came with skid plates? The H3 comes with them standard. I don't think a single one of Jeep's competitors has tow hooks as optional equipment, because that's stupid for an offroader.

Optional recovery and armor aside, small tires and weak axles were the norm for Jeeps until the JK. No Hummer ever came with an axle as crappy as the Dana 35 or tires smaller than 32".

[RARECJ8]

let's see more rescues and stay on-topic?! FWIW, if i'm cruising over the Rubicon, which we do often, hands down i'm in the 81 Scrambler. Now, if i'm over in sand land fighting haji, then by all means give me an up armored Humvee--- each are specialized tools for the specific job to get done. So there is room for both IMO.

mb