Who makes 1966 J2000 gladiator 327 engine - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Full Size Jeep Forum > Who makes 1966 J2000 gladiator 327 engine

FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye KitFS: Wranger BRIGHT License Plate LED! Just $3! Great valueRough Country Lift Kits and Parts!

Reply
Unread 05-31-2009, 08:44 AM   #1
hartswelding
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: king and queen
Posts: 8
Who makes 1966 J2000 gladiator 327 engine

I just recently bought a 1966 J2000 gladiator truck with a 327 v8.. im curious as to who is the manufacturer of this engine..

hartswelding is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-31-2009, 12:30 PM   #2
trellis8
Registered User
1986 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin area
Posts: 25
American Motors.
__________________
1986 Grand Wagoneer
1982 Wagoneer plow truck
1984 Grand Wagoneer
1985 Grand Wagoneer
trellis8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-01-2009, 08:43 AM   #3
BJ's Off-Road
Registered User
1979 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,379
It is a Packard designed engine, was used in a lot of different displacements in Packards in the 50's, including the 327 that you have in your Jeeps.
__________________
www.bjsoffroad.com
BJ's Off-Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-01-2009, 12:50 PM   #4
PavementPounder
Cool as Ice...
 
PavementPounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Posts: 2,652
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f57/gladiator-engine-738631/

Its not a Packard. You need to stop telling people that. Its wrong. The first V8 AMC used was a Packard. Not the same thing at all. From the other thread where you said this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by PavementPounder View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ's Off-Road View Post

Its a 1st-gen AMC V8, which is not a Packard. That Allpar article does not state what happened very clearly. AMC was to use some Packard motors early on, but the business contract with Packard failed. The Wikipedia entry explains it more clearly, but the MatadorCouple.com article provides much more detail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_V8_engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Many members of the AMC hobby refer to this engine family as the "GEN-1" AMC V8. It was created almost by accident. AMC President George W. Mason had a verbal agreement with Packard that the two companies would supply parts for each other when practical. AMC started buying Packard V8s in 1954 for the big 1955 Nash Ambassador and Hudson Hornet. These were supplied with Packard "Ultramatic" automatic transmissions - exclusively. Packard sent AMC some parts bids, but were rejected as too expensive. George W. Romney, AMC's new head decided against further relationships with Packard.

An incensed Romney ordered his engineering department to develop an in-house V8 as soon as possible. The engineering department hired David Potter, a former Kaiser Motors engineer, to come in and help develop the engine. Potter had previously worked on a V8 design for Kaiser, and had the experience necessary to take the engine from drawing board to full production in just under 18 months, an extraordinary engineering feat at the time -- slide rules were the norm because there were no computers.


Read this article to understand a few things about the misunderstood AMC V8. (Scroll down to it.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MatadorCoupe.com
AMC V8 Engines

The first V8 AMC used was the Packard 320. Packard's "Ultramatic" automatic transmission was the only trans available with this engine. It was used only in 1955 and some 1956 models. AMC had talked with Packard in the late 40's about possible merger. AMC officials still hoped this would happen and felt a cooperative venture would strengthen bonds between the two companies and pave the way. AMC and Packard agreed to use each other as parts suppliers -- or so AMC thought. In reality Packard president James Nance felt he was doing AMC a favor by selling them engines and felt no obligations to purchase from them (Packard was still a healthy company in 1955) . A few bids were sent over just for show, but were rejected as being too high. This took place early in the hand-shake agreement.

This incensed AMC president George Mason so much that he ordered his engineers to develop a V8 engine as soon as possible (the hand-shake agreement was meant to foment trust between the two companies -- we see how that worked!). In order to do this AMC hired former Kaiser engineer Dave Potter. He had already worked on V8 designs at Kaiser and was able to have an engine ready for installation in a vehicle in less than 18 months!

In order to meet the short development time the engine couldn't be cutting edge technology. Instead it used all proven design and build techniques. It was on a par with other V8s of the time, but not the then-new, cutting-edge Chevrolet small block (also introduced in 1955). In other words the engine was relatively bulky and heavy for its displacement, but very strong. There wasn't time to build and test cast rods and crankshafts so forged parts were used. With the bulk of the block and forged crank and rods, this proved to be an exceptionally strong engine. Today a few racers have discovered this and are using them for high boost turbocharging. The only thing required is custom forged pistons -- the crank and rods are as strong or stronger than aftermarket performance parts after a little preparation.

The only drawback to the design was the heads. They used conventional vertical overhead valves. With the valve going straight down into the head there was limited room -- the valves could only be so big before shrouding affected flow. The block was capable of supporting over 400 cubic inches, but the heads would need to be redesigned to support large enough valves. Only slightly larger valves can be installed in these heads, and it may not be worth the cost. The turbo racers mentioned earlier overcome valve size somewhat with boost -- up to 23 psi -- but limit displacement to near stock, only boring to take out wear.

Note that Chevrolet didn't make their small block 327 until 1962. The early AMC V8 more closely resembles the Chevrolet 396 big block, though there are very notable differences. This is as close to a "big block" as AMC ever made.

AMC engineers knew that the heavy V8 couldn't compete with more modern small blocks introduced by the competition (Chevy in 55, Chrysler 55, Ford 63). The heavy engines weren't in line with AMC's economy image either, though they were very much responsible for the Rambler's reliability and smoothness reputations.

AMC started development on a new V8 shortly after the first was in full production. The new engine, introduced in mid 1966, shared some features of modern small blocks and others more common with big block of the era. It had wide bore centers comparable to a big block. This made the block a little longer but provided plenty of room for future growth and increased stability. For this reason some publications call it a "mid block". It had a Buick style oil pump made into the timing cover. The distributor was driven off the camshaft via a gear that bolts to the front of the camshaft. The oil pump drive shaft was slotted to fit a tang on the end of the distributor shaft.

A 390 cubic inch performance model was introduced for the 1968 AMX. This used the same dimensions as the 290 and 343 but had thicker main bearing webs for added stiffness in that area. AMC never produced a factory four bolt main bearing engine as they felt the two bolt cap was adequate, but they did cast the webs thick enough to be drilled for aftermarket four bolt main caps for racing purposes. To keep high reliability with the longer stroke all 390 and larger AMC engines used forged crankshafts and rods. According to AMC engineers forgings were originally used due to inadequate time to test cast parts. AMC decided to keep the forgings, either due to low numbers of the engines or to retain high reliability. In either case an AMC 390/401 is much stronger than comparable small block 400 engines. No aftermarket cranks or rods are required for racing, just careful preparation of the stock parts.

Displacements were increased in 1970 by lengthening the deck height of the block by 0.16" for that much longer stroke. The 390 had built such a performance reputation that a new rod was made to keep a 390 for 1970. The stroke was changed only 0.11" for the big engine to bring displacement to 401 cubic inches for 1971. It was felt that more than 400 inches would be larger than needed. (EDIT: But possible.) Even then the block had to be notched at the bottom of the bores to clear the crankshaft counterweights. The higher deck height meant a slightly wider intake was necessary.

The heads were also changed in 1970. 1966-1969 heads have rectangular exhaust ports. 1970 and later heads have a "dog leg" or "pork chop" shaped exhaust port. The larger port increased exhaust flow by around 50%, making AMC heads the best flowing production heads available. For this reason the Chrysler "Magnum" V8 head was based on the AMC design. The new ports also required new exhaust manifolds.

AMC V8 engines are generally classified as GEN-1, GEN-2, and GEN-3 (GEN for generation). The GEN-1 engine is the large 1955-66 250-327 block, GEN-2 the smaller 1966-69 290/343/390, and GEN-3 the taller 304/360/401 (and 1970 390) model. Although the GEN-2 and GEN-3 share essentially the same block except for the 0.16" deck height increase, the head, intake manifold, and exhaust manifold changes justify the separate designation. GEN-3 engines also use 1/2" head bolts, GEN-2 uses 7/16" head bolts. Heads will interchange between the two as long as the bolt size is accounted for. Step dowels are made to fit the better flowing GEN-3 heads on GEN-2 blocks, but for racing purposes it is better to drill and tap the older block for 1/2" head bolts. To put GEN-2 heads on a GEN-3 block the bolt holes must be reamed to fit 1/2" bolts.

Technically AMC didn't build a small block or big block, they just made one V8 engine with the exception of the short overlap in 1966. In reality the engines are compared with the competition. With this in mind the GEN-1 can be considered a "big block" because of its external dimensions and weight, and the GEN-2 and GEN-3 small blocks for the same reasons. Some publications have mistakenly called the 390 and 401 "big blocks" because of the displacements. Externally all GEN-2 and GEN-3 engines are the same size with the exception of height and width. All bolt patterns and external bolt on parts (except intake and exhaust manifolds) are identical. All internal parts interchange, though crankshaft and rod swaps may require custom pistons. GEN-1 parts are unique to that engine.

All 1970 and later AMC heads use the same port design. All 360, 390, and 401 heads are identical. These use 2.025" intake and 1.680" exhaust valves (early 70 used a 1.625" exhaust valve) and have the high flow "dog leg" exhaust ports. If building an AMC race engine simply order pistons for the desired compression ratio and forget the smaller chamber heads -- it won't cost any more (maybe less!) if the pistons need replacing anyway. 1970-early 71 304 heads use a different casting (3199517) but are essentially the same as the 360/390/401 heads. Ports may be slightly smaller and castings a bit thinner, but according to all AMC technical data 2.02"/1.62" valves can be installed. Combustion chamber volume for the 304 head is 52.20cc and produced a compression ratio of 9.0:1 with stock pistons. Later 304 heads have a 58.92cc chamber and produce 8.4:1 compression.

The bore size of GEN-1 engines is cast into the left rear of the block. This is covered by the bell housing when engine is in a vehicle with transmission installed. The cubic inch size of all GEN-2 and GEN-3 engines is cast into each side of the block just behind the engine mount plates in the center of the engine. An exception is the 1970 thick cast 360 (used in Donohue Javelins to homologate the thick wall 360 block for Trans-Am racing) and some service replacement engines. Since the Engine Day Build Code or serial number is located on a removable tag this is the only reliable way to identify engine size. This does not apply to the Packard V8 engine.
__________________
This is how NAXJA Midwest Chapter elected officials like to treat their resident users and former multi-year supporters.


<--- Click "Classifieds" under my avatar to see all my parts (mostly CJ & XJ) currently for sale on JeepForum!
PavementPounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-01-2009, 02:26 PM   #5
BJ's Off-Road
Registered User
1979 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,379
K, I guess I stand corrected, it is still a bastard of an engine though, Packard or not.
__________________
www.bjsoffroad.com
BJ's Off-Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-16-2009, 05:07 PM   #6
rspar
Registered User
1965 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 15
I'm not expert but wasn't a 66 still made by Kaiser?
rspar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-16-2009, 05:12 PM   #7
rspar
Registered User
1965 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 15
"Formerly known as the "Rambler V8", many new AMC enthusiasts refer to this engine family as the "GEN-1" AMC V8. Prior to the formation of AMC, Nash Kelvinator President George W. Mason desired to negotiate a merger between Nash, Hudson, Studebaker and Packard. Initially he had a verbal agreement with Packard that the two companies would supply parts for each other when practical. AMC started buying Packard V8s in 1954 for the big 1955 Nash Ambassador and Hudson Hornet. These were supplied with Packard "Ultramatic" automatic transmissions - exclusively. AMC sent Packard some parts bids, but were rejected as too expensive. An incensed George Mason ordered his engineering department to develop an in-house V8 as soon as possible. The engineering department hired David Potter, a former Kaiser Continental engineer, to come in and help develop AMC's first non-inline engine. Potter had previously been involved with a V8 plan for Kaiser, but both Nash and Hudson design elements can be seen in the design. From drawing board to full production in just under 18 months was an engineering feat in itself. "

I stand correcting myself...sort of.
rspar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-02-2009, 03:36 AM   #8
carnuck
Registered User
1984 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,213
The AMC list call it a Nash motor
carnuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #9
PavementPounder
Cool as Ice...
 
PavementPounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Posts: 2,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuck View Post
The AMC list call it a Nash motor
That's like calling a Magnum 360 an AMC motor. AMC design elements are seen in both the motor and the heads, but its not an AMC.
__________________
This is how NAXJA Midwest Chapter elected officials like to treat their resident users and former multi-year supporters.


<--- Click "Classifieds" under my avatar to see all my parts (mostly CJ & XJ) currently for sale on JeepForum!
PavementPounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-06-2009, 10:03 AM   #10
carnuck
Registered User
1984 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,213
AMC wasn't yet around when the 327 (and it's predecessors) came out.
carnuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-06-2009, 10:47 AM   #11
5-90
Registered User
1988 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose, CA, Hammerspace
Posts: 5,344
I'd have to check, but I'm inclined to think that the basic design work of the 327 used in full-size Jeeps was actually a Kaiser design. AMC did have a 327ci (that wasn't anything like the Chevvy 327ci, except in terms of displacement) that was called the "Vigilante" engine - but I think the Jeep 327 was actually a Kaiser.
__________________
"recon" (sic - reckon)(tm) "hihgly"(tm) "seceed"(tm)
"Outback AIDS - Alcohol-Induced Dizzy Spells"
5-90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-06-2009, 12:00 PM   #12
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 11,871
The Jeep 327 was identical to the 327 found in AMC cars.

I grew up with a '66 AMC Rambler Ambassador as the family car. The engine in that car was identical to those found in FSJ's.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-06-2009, 02:11 PM   #13
carnuck
Registered User
1984 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,213
The 327 came out in 1957 and AMC was formed in 1954
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_V8_engine
carnuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-06-2009, 03:10 PM   #14
PavementPounder
Cool as Ice...
 
PavementPounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Posts: 2,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
I'd have to check, but I'm inclined to think that the basic design work of the 327 used in full-size Jeeps was actually a Kaiser design. AMC did have a 327ci (that wasn't anything like the Chevvy 327ci, except in terms of displacement) that was called the "Vigilante" engine - but I think the Jeep 327 was actually a Kaiser.
Its not a Kaiser. The engineer in charge came from kaiser and had worked on their V8s. The AMC 327 is nobody else's motor and was used in both the cars and Jeeps as CSP said.
__________________
This is how NAXJA Midwest Chapter elected officials like to treat their resident users and former multi-year supporters.


<--- Click "Classifieds" under my avatar to see all my parts (mostly CJ & XJ) currently for sale on JeepForum!
PavementPounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-30-2009, 05:01 PM   #15
jobbless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 1
little off topic question

but does anyone know if any other motor will bolt in place of the amc 327? perhaps without too much hassle. the 327s seem to be a little difficult to find locally. i have a 66 amc ambassador and the motor needs extensive work. not too interested in spending a bunch of cash on that. i would rather just pick up a running motor and drop it in any help would be appreciated. thanks, john
jobbless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.