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Unread 03-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #316
Saul32
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1988 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago, IL
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Thanks for all the input gents.
I am completely new to working on engines so I don't know what zeroing a cam means. If you can elaborate on it I would appreciate it. Also, I was told by a few folks that if I change the springs I mightalso have to re-bore the engine? That's why I went witthe kit w just cam, lifters, and timing gears n chain.
Also still deciding on wether I should go with TFI from crtperformance or a Mallory HEI kit. From my understanding they're about the same as far as performance but the price is def different. ..


Mkimball72 what brand liner are you going with? And can you post pics when you line it up? That will be my next project after I tackle my engine work. My wife will not ride in my Agnes because she says it smells like feet or parmesan cheese. The 25 old carpet def needs replacing.

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Unread 03-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #317
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul32
Thanks for all the input gents.
I am completely new to working on engines so I don't know what zeroing a cam means. If you can elaborate on it I would appreciate it. Also, I was told by a few folks that if I change the springs I mightalso have to re-bore the engine? That's why I went witthe kit w just cam, lifters, and timing gears n chain.
Also still deciding on wether I should go with TFI from crtperformance or a Mallory HEI kit. From my understanding they're about the same as far as performance but the price is def different. ..

Mkimball72 what brand liner are you going with? And can you post pics when you line it up? That will be my next project after I tackle my engine work. My wife will not ride in my Agnes because she says it smells like feet or parmesan cheese. The 25 old carpet def needs replacing.
I couldn't find a Mallory HEI kit when I was ready to buy. Had to bite the bullet and get the MSD.
I don't think you have to bore anything unless its a high lift cam or your using larger valves.
When hes talking about zeroing the cam you offset the timing to make the cam and crank perfectly aligned. You can't go by the timing marks when you do it. You need a kit. The factory retarded valve timing for emissions but I am not sure how drastically this affects performance.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 03-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #318
Saul32
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Do I need to zero it out if I have the edelbrock intake w EGR and am keeping all my emissions stuff?
Thanks again
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Unread 03-23-2013, 04:59 PM   #319
RockRollin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul32 View Post
Do I need to zero it out if I have the edelbrock intake w EGR and am keeping all my emissions stuff?
Thanks again
The retarding of the cam lowered the total cfm at any given rpm of the engine, that coupled with an air pump reduced total the emissions. The idea was to have the volume of a smaller ci engine, but still call it a 360.
If you zero the camshaft you increase the cfm of the engine without increasing displacement. The internal combustion engine is an air pump. Air&fuel is pulled in, fired, expelled. So the higher the cfm, the more power it produces.
If your concerned about an emissions test, and you've been borderline in the past, then skip it. If you want to get the most out of your upgrade, zero the cam. Yes it will be fine with the stock emissions equipment. It will not effect your timing marks on the crank. Your changing the amount of time the valves are open during the stroke only, not the timing of TDC.
I have never heard of having to re-bore due to new valve springs. I'm really not trying to bring fear to your project. I've done cam swaps and never had a problem in higher number of cases than having problems, maybe 3 to 1. I've just had it hammered into my sometime thick head so much, I guess I just pass it on
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Clawed: 90GW, TFI, Streetfire, 3"lift all spring, 31"BFG ATs, working RKE, Edel2131, Holly 1850, mild cam,
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Unread 03-23-2013, 05:19 PM   #320
Saul32
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Thanks. I'll be searching the web on zeroing a cam.
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Unread 03-23-2013, 05:27 PM   #321
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRollin
It will not effect your timing marks on the crank. Your changing the amount of time the valves are open during the stroke only, not the timing of TDC.
But it does mean you can't go off of the marks on the upper gear(cam) in relation to the lower (crank). Right? Because the cam controls the opening and closing of the valves in relation to TDC. That was what I was trying to convey.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 03-23-2013, 05:57 PM   #322
RockRollin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelc View Post
But it does mean you can't go off of the marks on the upper gear(cam) in relation to the lower (crank). Right? Because the cam controls the opening and closing of the valves in relation to TDC. That was what I was trying to convey.
The Edel 7818 has three keyways, and three separate alignment marks. Its wayyyy easier (although not as adjustable) than the offset woodruff keys and degree dial. The directions are pretty simple, stock, 5ºret, 5º adv. The ignition timing does not change. If you can change a tire, you can use this timing chain set
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Clawed: 90GW, TFI, Streetfire, 3"lift all spring, 31"BFG ATs, working RKE, Edel2131, Holly 1850, mild cam,
05 Renegade OME 927, 947, top plate, JBA 4.5s
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Unread 03-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #323
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRollin

The Edel 7818 has three keyways, and three separate alignment marks. Its wayyyy easier (although not as adjustable) than the offset woodruff keys and degree dial. The directions are pretty simple, stock, 5ºret, 5º adv. The ignition timing does not change. If you can change a tire, you can use this timing chain set
If it only took the same amount of time.
And I'm sure his sprocket was a COMP CAM sprocket if he purchased it in the kit. So... Yeah. I think he needs a kit, unless he buys the Edelbrock gear.
And nobody said ignition timing.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 03-24-2013, 07:42 AM   #324
RockRollin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelc View Post
If it only took the same amount of time.
And I'm sure his sprocket was a COMP CAM sprocket if he purchased it in the kit. So... Yeah. I think he needs a kit, unless he buys the Edelbrock gear.
And nobody said ignition timing.
I'm not disagreeing with you, your info is correct as the cam offset "kit" goes, as well as the "you can't go by the timing marks" . I just don't want that info confused with ignition timing.
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Clawed: 90GW, TFI, Streetfire, 3"lift all spring, 31"BFG ATs, working RKE, Edel2131, Holly 1850, mild cam,
05 Renegade OME 927, 947, top plate, JBA 4.5s
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Unread 03-24-2013, 07:00 PM   #325
Saul32
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Noticed the rear driver's side looking a bit lower than the passengers rear.
Measured and it was exactly an inch shorter. Looked under the truck and the driver's side shock is missing the nut on the top bolt. Shock was almost all the way out. A few weeks ago when I retorqued the suspension that damn bolt stripped so bad that it wouldn't tighten the nut enough. I seriously thought it would be good for a bit since i'm ordering new shocks and now this happens..
Anyways, is it possible that the difference of an inch is caused by that shock hardly being on right? Or could my frame be bent?
Also, that bolt is part of the frame...wtf should I do once I get the new shocks in?
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Unread 03-24-2013, 08:10 PM   #326
revelc
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Springs set height and travel. Shocks just keep the springs from "springing" continually. Without shocks youd hit a bump and keep bouncing.

I digress.
I had the same issue. The has tank weighs that side down. You can get new springs. I just got a lift kit and called it a day.

Cheers.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 03-24-2013, 08:36 PM   #327
TrboDslWagoneer
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Try to tap the stud. If it is too stripped to do the same size you will have to go a size smaller and buy a corresponding nut. Use plenty of penetrating oil, PB blaster works great.
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Unread 03-26-2013, 08:30 PM   #328
Saul32
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The stud looks like its part of the frame. Is that right? Or is my shyte seized?
Its the upper bolt for the rear shock. Right next to the gas tank.
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Unread 03-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #329
Dave145
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My dad and I finished fixing my rear window and my wobbly steering column
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Unread 03-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #330
Saul32
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waited for the mechanic to call saying it was ready but no dice...
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