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Unread 06-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #1
blackj10
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1980 J-Series Truck 
 
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question on a 4.0 head swap on 258

I'm in the process of that well discussed head swap on the old j10. My old intake was the cast one, so I got one from an '83 CJ and fit it to the head with a 4.0 header. since my old cast intake was heated from the exhaust manifold, have you people that have done this swap hooked up the wired heater in the aluminum manifold? or just left it be. Also do i need to hook up the one heater hose thru the manifold?...or just plug them and stay with the original heater hoses?

Thanks.

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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:06 AM   #2
pleontks
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I did the intake swap on my gremln. I don't use the electric heater. If you can, I'd run the coolant through the intake. I had to do a good amount of grinding on the intake water passage so it would clear my custom headers, so now I have a big hole in it, so I didn't hook it in with the coolant.

I'm not sure what the intake heaters are for....emmissions?
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:10 AM   #3
super98lsc
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I know for performance on my 4.7 Stroker in the WJ I did everything on the planet to cool that intake. The factory heated them to improve warmup and fuel atomization from the carburetors. Same thing on the v8 with the heated exhaust passages that cross under the plenum floors. (first thing we delete when building a performance engine) Now if you are running a carb in seriously cold weather it might be nice to retain the feature for warm up or -20 driving. Down in TX never an issue. My Waggie,Stingray,442 dont even have chokes on them.

I dont have a 258 anymore.... miss my CJ-7 :-( just my .02
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:11 AM   #4
blackj10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleontks View Post
I did the intake swap on my gremln. I don't use the electric heater. If you can, I'd run the coolant through the intake. I had to do a good amount of grinding on the intake water passage so it would clear my custom headers, so now I have a big hole in it, so I didn't hook it in with the coolant.

I'm not sure what the intake heaters are for....emmissions?

Did you notice a difference with the swap? Hoping it's worth the trouble.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:15 AM   #5
blackj10
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I'm on the west side of Oregon...doesn't really get too cold around here. Maybe 30's at the coldest in the winter. A pleasant change from Wyoming in that respect.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:17 AM   #6
pleontks
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I didn't do the head, only the intake. Went from stock cast-iron 1bbl intake with carter YF carb, to (newer)stock aluminum 2bbl intake with a carter bbd carb. Intake works better, but carter carbs suck donkey balls. DO NOT put that crappy BBD on.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 10:28 AM   #7
blackj10
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Carter BBD That's actually what's been on there since we bought the rig in 1980, so I have nothing to compare it to. I put a new carter on about 10 years ago and the engine ran like new again when in Wyoming. Now out here in Oregon burning ethanol, not as well. Doing one step at a time to see the improvements. Did the ford cap and rotor with a hotter coil and noticed a little difference. Figured now I'll do the 4.0 head and see the change. Then if I need some more, I'll change the cam and lastly possibly change the brake booster so as to fit on the 4.0 intake and mpfi.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 11:10 AM   #8
pleontks
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I'd switch out the carb before the head. I have been very disappointed with every bbd I've driven. Does yours have the steppper motor?

A lot of people recommend the mc2100 with the 1.09 venturis. That is what I put on my gremlin, but she's getting new gaskets at the moment, so I haven't got to test her out yet. I got the carb of a 88? ford f150, and had to order the adapter plate.

Did you upgrade your duraspark box? With all my AMCs, the ignition is the upgrade I notice most. My j10 has the msd 6a and a blaster coil, 77 cherokee is 'stealth hei' and stock coil, gremlin is 'stealth hei' and msd blaster coil. You can do the 'stealth hei' setup for almost free.


And, I will admit that I'm no carb builder, so my bbd problems could just be me, but they seem to have NO top end. Good idle, easy adjustments, but don't like 1/2 or more throttle.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #9
blackj10
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same ignition module, just added the cap and base, rotor, 8mm wires, and an access coil. stepper motor? no idea. I've read about those mc2100. might just end up going that route. that's my problem, i got all kinds of torque and low end power, but as far as pulling hills or towing...nothing. but then again 112 hp isn't too much. my little triumph car has that much.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 01:33 PM   #10
CSP
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There are several posts on the CJ forum on how to hook up that heater when intakes are swapped.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 04:35 PM   #11
blackj10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
There are several posts on the CJ forum on how to hook up that heater when intakes are swapped.
found them and saved the pages, thanks. going to hook up the coolant lines and leave the porcupine heater unhooked for now.
trying to have the jeep out of service for as little time as possible, cause it's pretty much a daily driver. i know there will be surprises once i pull the existing head off, that's taken for granted. i have the manifolds fitted to the 4.0 now...just trying to have my plans straight before shutting the thing down, and keep the surprises to a minimum.
looks like the biggest thing will be to fab up a new power steering bracket.
i haven't seen anything in all the hours of posts i have read about the throttle bracket though when using a bbd. looks like you loose the bolts for it with the separate manifolds. Any suggestions out there? thanks
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Unread 06-03-2013, 05:55 PM   #12
CSP
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CJs used those manifolds with the BBD. It could be that you're not finding any info because there's not a need for anything custom.
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Unread 06-03-2013, 06:07 PM   #13
blackj10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
CJs used those manifolds with the BBD. It could be that you're not finding any info because there's not a need for anything custom.

Thanks csp. guess i'll save that for when i get it apart. first thought was that they used 2 of the bolts for the heater cover for that bracket, but they don't seem like they're quite in the same location. guess i'll find that out on the reassembly. if i have to, i'll just make something.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 07:38 AM   #14
Zorm
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been there, done this.
Had the 258 in my 83 cherokee. Started by tossing in a HEI dizzy out of a chevy pickup with the 6 cylinder. Nice little pep. Then got the carb adapter and tossed on the 2100 carb , had 1.08 cast into the side so it has the right jets, well, was stock form anyway. Little better pep. I ended up using the stock 258 throttle cable bracket set up. If I remember right, I just needed to make a "L" shape flat bracket to go between the cable end and the carb to get it to work right.
After that, did the 4.0 head swap and kept the 258 intake, even better pep and power. When i did that, I kept the 258 PS pump and just made a flat bar about 4" long to bolt the top bolt of the ps pump to the threaded hole on the 285 intake that was mounted a bit higher (due to notching the bottom of the mounting holes at the bottom of the intake for the 4.0 head)
Now I have just finished building a 4.6 stroker engine. I am working on the wiring and adapting the T176 bell housing for the CPS. I will be using the 2000 intake, ford 5.0 TB from an explorer, and ford 24lb injectors. Also swaped over to hydroboost pb to clear the 4.0 2000 intake. Might add turbo too but that is later.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #15
blackj10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorm View Post
been there, done this.
Had the 258 in my 83 cherokee. Started by tossing in a HEI dizzy out of a chevy pickup with the 6 cylinder. Nice little pep. Then got the carb adapter and tossed on the 2100 carb , had 1.08 cast into the side so it has the right jets, well, was stock form anyway. Little better pep. I ended up using the stock 258 throttle cable bracket set up. If I remember right, I just needed to make a "L" shape flat bracket to go between the cable end and the carb to get it to work right.
After that, did the 4.0 head swap and kept the 258 intake, even better pep and power. When i did that, I kept the 258 PS pump and just made a flat bar about 4" long to bolt the top bolt of the ps pump to the threaded hole on the 285 intake that was mounted a bit higher (due to notching the bottom of the mounting holes at the bottom of the intake for the 4.0 head)
Now I have just finished building a 4.6 stroker engine. I am working on the wiring and adapting the T176 bell housing for the CPS. I will be using the 2000 intake, ford 5.0 TB from an explorer, and ford 24lb injectors. Also swaped over to hydroboost pb to clear the 4.0 2000 intake. Might add turbo too but that is later.
Good deal Zorm....and good to know. Finished the head swap and there's a nice difference. Mother took the old girl over the mtns this week and liked the improvement as well. I had to do some welding and redrilling on the PS bracket and I replaced two of the bolts for the porky heater on the intake with studs and hung a small plate off them for the throttle bracket to bolt to. I readjusted the plunger in the BBD and am happy with the extra pep. Next test is to see how she pulls the boat. I'll go the way of swapping the brake booster and MPFI if I need more.
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