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Unread 04-15-2013, 12:32 PM   #31
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUNK726
sweet! that is what i was hoping for! Got the list and heading to the store! Here we go! The write up on the valley gasket was VERY helpful..thanks Revelc! IF the ignition upgrade doesn't cure the stumbling (along with carb rebuild/tune...THEN i will go back and replace intake gasket..(after discovering the PO's handy work in areas..i am not gonna take his word on it automatically being an intake "leak"...it still may end up being a leak, since it seems a hard job to get right..BUT ignition upgrade is a MUST if u ask me..thanks again!
Thumbs up on the ignition upgrade. If you want to check for an intake leak start the engine and spray small bursts of starter fluid strategically around the intake. If the engine surges it does have a leak. If not your good.

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Unread 04-15-2013, 12:33 PM   #32
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRollin
Your CJ type ignition will work well. Im running the stock duraspark dizzy, tfi coil,msd controller
Can you explain the benefit of a spark controller? Or would I even need one with my MSD ready to run distributor?
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-15-2013, 01:15 PM   #33
RockRollin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelc View Post
Can you explain the benefit of a spark controller? Or would I even need one with my MSD ready to run distributor?
I'm not sure of the model your running. Do you have the part#.
I'm running a controller for the higher coil voltage, and the multi spark discharge. I was already thinking I had a questionable duraspark (turns out to be fine) so the upgraded controller was a no brainer. It did make a major difference over the duraspark.
Ok, the valley pan could be leaking from beneath also, however make sure everything is in order first. The most common leak is in the end seals, not the intake runners. That being siad
Revelc did you end up using just the pan, or pan and fiber?
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Unread 04-15-2013, 01:51 PM   #34
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRollin

I'm not sure of the model your running. Do you have the part#.
I'm running a controller for the higher coil voltage, and the multi spark discharge. I was already thinking I had a questionable duraspark (turns out to be fine) so the upgraded controller was a no brainer. It did make a major difference over the duraspark.
Ok, the valley pan could be leaking from beneath also, however make sure everything is in order first. The most common leak is in the end seals, not the intake runners. That being siad
Revelc did you end up using just the pan, or pan and fiber?
It's an MSD 8523.
I purchased both to experiment. I used the Valley pan first to see if it would work on its own and it did. So I haven't used the felt ones yet.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-16-2013, 05:58 AM   #35
timgr
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Just FYI - a '74 will have a Delco points distributor. The "Hall effect" distributor is the Prestolite "Breakerless Inductive Distributor" (BID) system used 75-77. That is not what you have. The BID distributor has a distinctive plastic vacuum advance can; your distributor has the steel vacuum advance used with the Delco or the later Motorcraft Duraspark. If you have an ignition module and no points, it has already been upgraded to ... smething. More details are needed.
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Unread 04-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #36
JUNK726
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well then i am really confused..again! i have read about my '74 having points and that i may be screwed on doing any sort of ignition upgrade..BUT may explain why she stumbles/feels like it is running on 4 cylinders!?...anyways...i found a bag of old parts in back..and i am curious what the PO did or attempted to do...i found a smaller distributor base/cap and set of 7mm wires...the pics i included are of the electrical that was under hood that I removed yesterday..(grey cap/wires, halls effect, and coil/etc..) also a pic of the distributor base still attached under hood..hope this may help u guys help me out?? i thank you ALL in advance for ANY help/advice you can give me on what direction to go!? MSD ignition box/accel/coil..8mm wires MSD?..or IF i have the points model? am i screwed as they say?
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Unread 04-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #37
JUNK726
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pics of under hood electrical...
001.jpg   003.jpg   006.jpg   005.jpg  
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Unread 04-16-2013, 04:24 PM   #38
timgr
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It's a Delco points distributor with some aftermarket conversion. The Delcos use that distributor cap with the slide-up window. You can see that the advance plate is stamped "Delco-Remy."

I'm guessing the conversion is some ancient extinct aftermarket parts.

The smaller block is your Motorola voltage regulator - factory equipment.

See if you can read the print on the larger block with the blue label.
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Unread 04-16-2013, 04:41 PM   #39
JUNK726
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dam...well..just my luck i guess..thank u for clearing up my confusion! I apologize guys for my confusion...yah the electronic ignition (with the blue label) says "Hall a tron" electric engineering..? So now my BIG question is..do i just have to live with the stock stuff? U guys recommend just putting the original cap/rotor/wires and coil back on? or is there ANY other way to go? I am assuming the Motorcraft tpi ignition upgrade is not an option? OR maybe this may explain the horrible idling/running!...maybe PO tried to upgrade it and it can't be done on the points system of the '74..(apologize for the quick post/and inability to research further til tomorrow morning..i am off to work!) thanks again guys! throw any ideas at me! I am also thinking i am gonna pull the intake and do the valley gasket regardless! (as the work the PO has done so far..well..sorta scares me..so i wanna do it all correctly..) IF i need to live with the stock ignition system..so be it..thanks all!
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Unread 04-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #40
RockRollin
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WT...?
I think the last time i had points was in my 71 El-camino in 1985, and that was only long enough to get it home. I'm not a good resource for that.
Well your not "stuck" with any of it
There are options. You could get a HEI from Summit, or go with a late model (hehe) electronic ignition (duraspark) and run a controller. Time to start shopping.
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Unread 04-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #41
JUNK726
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thanks guys! yah..i think we onto something here..my best guess is...(and PLEEZ correct me if i am wrong)..odds are the PO maybe did the updated distributor already? and did NOT go as far as to get a new duraspark ignition module, tfi coil, and better wires??? the oversized cap and base seem to be installed onto the distributor..(definitely stamped Delco..)..hmm..getting closer tho! I am gonna get a good set of wires, MSD..ignition and coil (Accel or sometjing..) wire it up and see what goes?? do the intake gasket, rebuild my Edelbrock and cross my fingers!! Thanks a million! and hit me with ideas...i will keep this updated! Its my weekend..so i have 2 days of replacing fluids and hoses and MORE LEARNING! the hard way!
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Unread 04-17-2013, 06:48 AM   #42
timgr
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Almost got it.

This is the factory distributor for 1974. It WAS a Delco-Remy points distributor, and was upgraded with some aftermarket pointless ignition system.
It is NOW a factory Delco points distributor that has been converted. The conversion is an oddball that I don't recognize - likely extinct.

You now have the FACTORY distributor cap (Delco type) and the FACTORY rotor (Delco type) and the FACTORY coil. There is nothing oversized or upgraded about these parts.
The Duraspark parts are completely different and will not fit on this distributor.

The name "Hall a tron" suggests that this system uses the Hall effect as a trigger. This works fine, but it's an oddball today. Both the HEI and the Duraspark use the
variable reluctance principle, which is still in common use today (along with optical triggers). Likely obsolete - so I kinda think you should junk it all.

I would not use these parts - if the electronics fails, you will be forced to convert to some other system, because this stuff is no longer available.
We do not know if this converted distributor is compatible with the MSD 6A ignition box. I don't think the MSD can be triggered by a Hall effect distributor.
Maybe ... you could experiment, but your uncertainty indicates this may not be the right path.

I suggest you replace it all. You can probably convert the distributor back to points if you want. Points will trigger your MSD module.
Or you can use the Duraspark system parts (buy a Duraspark distributor, and your choice of parts to go with it), with the factory module or a MSD module.
Or you can buy the aftermarket HEI distributor, which has its own module.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 10:42 AM   #43
JUNK726
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awesome! Can't thank you enough! I agree..ima junk it all...at this point, i think i FINALLY am understanding..thanx for the patience! Duraspark system and module/etc's time! Not on the HEI boat, just don't wanna invest in it (spend the money in a radiator/hi flo water pump upgrade instead...PLUS i don't wanna deal with the worn cam gear thing (?) i am reading about..it may be a simpler route BUT..here's a quickie..and a BIGGIE!!...since i am gonna upgrade to the newer ('78+ amc 360) distributor...(correct???)...will i have to swap out to the OEM drive gear in these also?? i know a LOT of parts from autozone/napa also are China...and wiring doesn't scare me..(once i figured out PO stuff) NOW i know direction and parts..and i thank you guys a million..AGAIN!

Last edited by JUNK726; 04-17-2013 at 10:55 AM.. Reason: added info..
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Unread 04-17-2013, 11:24 AM   #44
RockRollin
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Definitely use the old dizzy gear. If it happens that it will not work, replace cam and dizzy gear with a matched set.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 12:29 PM   #45
timgr
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Pretty sure your existing Delco distributor gear will fit on an aftermarket HEI distributor ... if you want to go that way.

If you go Duraspark with the TFI/TeamRush parts, you'll need a Motorcraft distributor from a 1978 or later AMC V8.

Another possibility - if you want to keep costs down and not worry about your distributor and cam gear - convert your existing Delco distributor back to points,
and use this cap and rotor http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5497 ... then fit some HEI-type wires and a MSD 6A module.
Trigger the module with the points - they will last a long time, since they will no longer discharge the coil. Use your existing coil -
as long as it's in good condition, it will give you a very hot spark with the MSD module.

Or you can convert your Delco distributor to an electronic distributor like this http://www.junkyardgenius.com/jeep/cj502.html - then use the MSD
cap and rotor, HEI wires, your coil and MSD module.

Lots and lots of ways to approach this...
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